2
Washort says, " $self._hasIntelligence()"
4
Washort says, "*ponders setting that to 0 on certain people*"
5
Maxwell says, "yes, that's our Ego-Enhancing API"
6
[this from before we had 'emote'. I added it 10 minutes later. -ed]
8
You say, "I wanted to discourage people from using the [old] code as examples...".
9
You say, "but I don't think that bad java style is going to damage your budding programming skills :)".
10
* washort nods. 'I seriously hope not.' [see, i told you I added 'emote' -ed]
11
Washort says, "Oh, did i ever tell you about the Java assignment i had at the beginning of the semester?"
12
Washort says, "I was bored so i did it without any loops or temp variables."
13
Washort says, "so... don't tell ME about bad style. ;)"
15
<glyph> it's times like this when I wish I could just swallow my pride and use a standard thing like asyncore :)
17
<jedin> Since it's completely unsolicited, I'd just like to add that anyone who tries implementing Keynesian economics in this game will be put behind the door with the Elder Sign....
19
<Nafai> I love Python. It has made me look smart in this consulting job. Because of how easily I was able to do what they need me to do, they ended up doubling my pay rate. :) Woot!
20
<glyph> Woot *indeed*, good sir. :)
22
<glyph> you know, when I say *now* I mean "in a minute" :)
24
Glyph: "You need to start working on Twisted Reality."
25
Mike: "What makes you say that?"
26
Glyph: "Because it pains me to hear you talk about how you were 'in the same bed as' someone on AIM. There is no bed. There is no spoon. There's just some gay-ass peer-to-peer shit going on."
28
02:26:44 AreteComp: I've decided I'm going to warn you every 5 minutes until you go to bed.
29
(You have been warned by AreteComp (5%))
30
02:28:48 AreteComp: Tick, tick, motherfucker.
32
<washort> "TONIGHT on CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: Kenaan vs The Shrike"
34
<washort> yow. autoconf can be *thorough* sometimes..
35
<washort> "checking for EBCDIC... no"
36
<washort> i hesitate to ask what it would have done had the answer been "yes"
38
<glyphAtWork> the http server was so we could say "Web!" if we ever did a freshmeat announcement
39
<glyphAtWork> this makes people excited
41
FifthKow: jello is beyond good and evil
43
<washort> besides, we need a way to handle the cases of characters on drugs...
45
<jerji> sorry glyph, but I have to take away your dork award. det is far more deserving.:)
47
<det> glyph: you be on tomorrow ?
48
<glyph> det: what, you think I'll suddenly grow a life?
50
<glyph> det: if it were any more generic it would be socket.socket
51
-- (responding to det's request to make twisted.web more generic)
53
<glyph> GenericBoy: Dude, this is *python*... objects get created when you sneeze
55
<tenth> I get the feeling that I could rack up some ad impressions by posting an announcement to FM about a webserver "powered entirely by love, that I made out of this bong I had".
56
<tenth> Well, as long as it did something really l88t that other bong-servers didn't do, anyway.
59
Before you finish linking, you must answer the following:
60
Are you a Jew?[y/N]: y
63
<samuel> oh why do you mock me rpm
67
<tpck> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/whatisdivunal.html << makes it sound likes its done and played by millions worldwide
68
<washort> tpck: that's what ad copy is for
70
<tpck> glyph: I thought Enterprise Class Software wasn't supposed to crash?
71
<glyph> tpck: It costs extra for the kind that doesn't crash, I think
73
<glyph> now you're probably wondering how to run cvs
74
<samuel> actually i was thinking of naked women.
77
<\\mimic> graydon: it's when you start constructing conditional branches in sed that the men in white coats come for you
78
<graydon> mimic: been there, done that. wrote a qmail crypto extension in sed this summer :)
80
<jerji> dude tf programming, in my experience, was just about reading the help file and hacking something until it worked.
81
<jerji> not really the kind of place to employ software engineering principles. ;)
83
<denial> CanDoo: I would rather run a home trepaning centre than do tech support :)
85
<zedboy> washort "A given program in PERL is like a turd. you can see it. smell it. touch it. yuck! it's definitely a turd. it's compact. it's smelly. it's brown. a turd, thru and thru"
86
<zedboy> washort "The *same* program in C/C++/Java/your favorite imperative language here is like a roll
87
of toilet paper, with the turd smeared *all over it*. you tear of one sheet. yuck! another sheet. ugh! another sheet. ewww! etc"
88
--- quoting Chet Murphy
90
<shapr> I get the feeling regexes in emacs are subtly different from python
92
<moshez> I'm not touching anything not abstracted from hardware at least two levels
95
<dreid> i made the quotefile!
97
<dreid> "lispachu, parentheses attack!"
101
<washort> this was experimentally determined using an unholy combination of emacs, python's interactive mode, and bc
103
<smoke:#lisp> perhaps i should write a "Teach yourself CL in 21 days" book and hide from Peter Norvig for a few years
105
<GenericBoy> I'm not high!
107
<Mike_L> what is twisted python?
108
<glyph> Mike_L: it's the python libraries your mother would use, if she were a programmer, had a lot of free time, and was very VERY patient
110
KaraNiSuru: Your opinion has differing degrees of importance to me. On
111
programming, it's almost like law; on fashion, it's unimportant; on cuteness,
112
it serves only to warn me away.
113
(addressed to glyph, from his girlfriend)
115
<washort> glyph: you're evil, too
116
<glyph> washort: I try
117
<washort> not the good kind of evil
118
<washort> the other kind
120
<Yosomono@efnet> swing is to gui programming what cupholders are to cdrom drives
121
<Yosomono@efnet> something easily mistaken for the real thing
123
<glyph> well, I'm working on divunal now
124
<washort> and what are you doing to it?
125
<glyph> I'm making the clouds work again
126
<glyph> the clouds were always one of my favorite bits
128
<washort> typical vapourware
130
<glyph> washort: I learned C from reading the E sources.
131
<washort> glyph: well, i learned python from reading Zope
132
<washort> glyph: so i think we're about equally damaged
134
--> glyph (glyph@adsl-64-123-27-108.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) has joined #python
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<glyph> yay for pushing the wrong button
136
<washort> when will you xchat people learn
137
<washort> silly hacker, irc is for terminals
138
<washort> you dont see *me* typing '/quite' by accident ;)
139
<-- washort has quit (either =))
140
--> washort (washort@131.204.216.12) has joined #Python
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<washort> glyph: you bastard.
143
<GenericBoy> I wish I had enough knowledge to start working on this damn thing
144
<GenericBoy> glyph: But you had to crush my hopes. ;)
145
<GenericBoy> not that that's bad though, I am grateful for giving me a better
147
<glyph> GenericBoy: crushing hopes is what I do best
148
<glyph> GenericBoy: you call me "glyph", but in ancient mesopotamia they called me the "eater of souls"
150
<glyph> many as-yet-untranslated pre-cuneform tablets will one day be
151
translated to say "beware he who will write a webserver that will deprive you
152
of your very will to live!"
153
<glyph> GenericBoy: although I'm not sure if they were talking about me or
156
<GenericBoy> I'll be the t.w guy from now on
159
<glyph> SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO MAINTAIN MY SOFTWARE
160
<glyph> oh god I think I'm going to cry
162
<washort> GenericBoy: i think that was a mistake :)
165
<glyph> GenericBoy: * New in 0.8.0: carmstro's soul now comes with twisted.web
168
<jepler> char buf[1024]
169
<jepler> strcpy(buf, user_data)
171
<jepler> buf = user_data[:1024]
172
<jepler> if len(user_data) > 1024: security_hole(user_data[1024:])
173
<jepler> actually, the translation is not difficult, so long as you implement security_hole() properly.
175
<LynchM0b> ... do u have an easier way
177
<LynchM0b> thank the lord
178
<LynchM0b> java is rediculous
180
<yy[Z]@efnet> i can say with all confidence that my python code was the
181
fastest and tightest code on the whole java project i been on for the last year
183
<ben3> OO is a seductive failure.
185
<dreid> washort: i don't want to take over the world
186
<dreid> i want to marry the chick who is going to take over the world
188
<demoncrat> forth is much better than sanity
190
<snibril> Tim can go on at length on issues which are not really the core of the problem, complicating said problem for himself and everybody else.
191
<snibril> glyph: sounds like you ;)
192
<glyph> snibril: the difference is there is rarely actually a problem, when I'm involved :)
194
<glyph> So if I understand you correctly you want software that will b-2-b education portal internet enterprise mission-critical!
196
<glyph> Ah. then you want Zope.
198
<shapr> glyph: ok, where's the tw tutorial?
199
<glyph> shapr: feh, you think there is *documentation*? You just need to be at harmony with the universe, and the api calls will come to you.
200
<shapr> I just got a job writing Java. harmony is nowhere close to me.
202
<shapr> I just *love* your Python vs Java rant :) it's GREAT
204
<shapr> glyph: while reading through the last part of your rant, I got this mental picture of "Glyph Lefkowitz, Python Ninja" systematically chopping limbs off the JVM
205
<shapr> glyph: the problem is that "don't expect your apps to run" was cutting the head off, and for cinematic effect, it should be on the bottom
207
<dreid> GenericBoy: but multiple eterms tailing various logfiles are great for making it look like your actually doing something :)
209
<dreid> i'm preparing myself for when i have to work in a corporate setting
211
<TomG> I'm in the wrong channel.
213
<dreid> Yoso: i like to think that i'm a fairly sane individual for a python programmer anyway
215
<glyph> snibril: I think we should put *you* in the unit tests dir.
217
<bram> have I mentioned there's a FRIGGIN BUTTLOAD of ways web input can go bad?
219
<washort> GenericBoy: if we knew what we were doing, we would not call it programming
221
<GenericBoy> Usually relying on magic buttons from the future doesn't work
222
[in reply to something Mike_L said. --ed]
224
<blupingu> hi glyph. i'm trying out python because of twisted python :)
226
newpath = os.path.join(self.path, path)
227
# forgive me, oh lord, for I know not what I do
228
p, ext = os.path.splitext(newpath)
230
<Nafai> There's a twisted python philosophy tutorial?
231
<washort> Nafai: yes.... read it, expand your consciousness
232
<obanta> It's actually a new religion
234
<glyph> washort: coding angry lends whole new meaning to song lyrics :)
236
<GenericBoy> what's the point of all of this?
237
<glyph> GenericBoy: I don't know
239
<Acapnotic> [ Read Past Entries ] [ Modify an entry ] [ Write new entry ] [ Have me add one for you. ]
240
<Acapnotic> include: [ ] generic angst [ ] relationship trouble (or lack thereof)
241
[ ] other family trouble [ ] cynical technology rants
242
<Acapnotic> also bash: [ ] slashdot [ ] users [ ] sysadmins [ ] politicians [ ] voters
245
-- proposed new configuration interface for the standard twisted.web weblog
247
<moshez@ircnet> I'm going to write a treatise "girls as open-source projects".
248
<moshez@ircnet> Instead of "reaching second-base", you're "writing patches".
249
<moshez@ircnet> "So, are you writing patches for you-know-who?" "Well, no, but I'm using the CVS version"
250
<moshez@ircnet> Should translate to "We're only kissing, but that's as serious as it got"
252
<dreid> watching a beautiful girl sleep is amazingly fun
253
<dreid> more fun than coding
254
<washort> do you mean 'more fun than coding Enterprise Applications in java', 'more fun than coding display hacks in C', or 'more fun than coding weblogs in python'?
256
# ha ha, python can do lexical closures good enough for me
257
# (Bah. if these were lexical closures you wouldn't need the
258
# 'obj=obj', and you could do 'return setdesc' and the
259
# function would still work after escaping. -was)
260
def setdesc(desc, obj=obj):
263
<_Krelin> Data hiding and encapsulation are at least in-laws, if not blood brothers
264
<glyph> data hiding is encapsulation's shrewish mother-in-law
266
<dreid> Zope is pretty much the reason i learned PHP, (and TPy is the reason i stopped)
268
* Nafai doesn't think he is worthy of the quotefile
269
<washort> you're in it twice
271
<washort@opn> "twisted python.... it's featurrific!"
273
<moshez> living is just syntactic sugar.
275
<det> glyph: what are you going to do now that UO2 is canceled ?
276
<washort> det: take over the world
277
<washort> det: same as before
278
<det> washort: but thats what he was going to do last night
279
<washort> det: glyph is a man of habit
281
<washort> who invented this "time zone" crap? everybody should be on IRC at once
283
--- washort has changed the topic to: | <-- you must be smarter than this stick to ride the internet
285
<Krelin> TwistedPython may, in fact, have both "enterprise" AND "internet" ;)
287
<thirmite@efnet> nothing like a pop tart to remind me i live in a first world country
289
<glyph> yosomono: in fact, I'll turn this box of Cheese Nips and
290
this 3-liter bottle of Mountain Dew into a irc2web interface
292
<h3x> actually i have clothes on
293
<h3x> believe it or not
295
<\broken:#openprojects> geez that tomg bot is in here again
296
<\broken:#openprojects> didn't we ban it a couple of times already
298
<Yosomono> uh, move zig zamboni to push grandma cats down the stairs to protect her/him from the terrible secret of space, which is that she/he can't skate?
300
<washort> o/` once i was the king of spain o/`
301
* Acapnotic throws a humble pie at washort
303
<bram> the more I get into the art of design, the more I design things like I'm seven years old
304
<bram> 'I don't want to do things that way because it's too hard'
305
<bram> 'I wanna do it like this because I understand it'
306
<bram> 'I'm ignoring that because it's scary'
307
<bram> 'I don't want to work with him because he's a poopy-head'
308
<bram> 'I don't want to use this because it smells like poo'
309
<bram> 'this is no fun any more, I'm going home'
311
<cube> Greetings, O Twisted One
313
<Forest> Someone please tell me that this thing about P3K and Perl 6 is just a sick April Fool's joke
314
<glyph> Forest: what, print>> wasn't a big enough hint?
316
* moshez lives to workaround design decisions made by others.
317
(-- after just proposing to implement IRC over HTTP via Zope.)
319
<idcmp> /msg ry a/s/l
321
<glyph> okay, cvs is scaring me
322
<det> glyph: when I was 5, when the other children were going as ninjas and dracula, I went as CVS!
323
<glyph> det: you should have gone as SCCS
324
<det> glyph: you gotta be a little cute to get the candy
326
<cube> If you are anal, and you love to be right all the time, C++ gives you a multitude of mostly untimportant details to fret about so you can feel good about yourself for getting them "right", while missing the big picture entirely
328
<cube> C++ extends the machine-efficiency requirement all the way up from
329
line-by-line implementation into entity abstraction as classes, it
330
corrupts far end of the coding spectrum with "efficiency" concerns.
332
<glyph> that's why I love IRC
333
<glyph> you can't be late for IRC
336
<radix> 'destroy here' isn't a good idea. :)
338
<radix> glyph: the problem with writing a framework for text universe is
339
that text adventure authors want to do the craziest shit :)
341
<thirmite@efnet> are you jewish?
345
<thirmite> btw, e, what are the girls like in .fi?
346
<e@ircnet> bipedal, warm blooded, pink skinned, about 1.5-2.0 meters tall
348
<dash> jeffk isn't funny, the people who think he's real are funny. :)
349
<thirmite> he isn't real?!?
351
<cyli> it'd be so cool. i'd feel all l33t and shit
353
<dash> if they had neural interfaces to computers, we'd both be dead by now
355
<skreech> I declare myself god
358
<radix> GenericBoy is no more
359
<radix> I killed him, and have taken his place
360
<Acapnotic> radix: whadja do with the body?
361
<det> Acapnotic: killed in a metophorical sense
362
<radix> that's what you think.
363
<Acapnotic> What happened to the metaphorical body?
364
<det> Acapnotic: the metaphorical body is decaying at the bottom of lake washington
365
<radix> that's what he thinks.
367
<dnm:#lisp> i'm convinced the core of loop [the Common Lisp facility] is a n-dimensional singularity and
368
that the common macro people implement is merrely the tessaract to loop's hypercube.
370
<radix> I'm an at least somewhat-educated dope fiend
372
<jedin> I figured your lasers would be a good impetus to action.
373
<glyph> Don't forget about them.
374
<glyph> They're hovering, just over your head... where you can't see them. Remember that.
376
<jedin> Hm. That could be a cool theme for a new breakfast cereal!
378
<moshez> glyph: I don't know anything about reality.
380
<Acapnotic> There are *many* differences between Texas and yogurt. Texas is drier than yogurt. Texas is larger than any amount of yogurt I've seen in one place at a time. (or ALL the yogurt I've seen at ANY time). Eating Texas would be less enjoyable than eating yogurt.
381
<Acapnotic> Texas does not come in eight ounce plastic containers with tinfoil lids. To the best of my knowledge, there is no "fruit on the bottom" version of Texas. Texas is not available in the dairy section of your grocer. Texas does not help fufill your daily dietary requirement of calcium.
383
<eAndroid> MAKE YOUR LOGO AL GORE ON A STICK
385
<dash> radix: the question is, do you _really_ want to do that? :)
386
<radix> no, but I want to make other people do it
388
<Rainy-Day> i ascended several times.. once as a tourist without wishes or material transformations
390
<radix> dash: Hey, what do you think a good visual aid for a talk on anarcho-capitalism would be?
391
<glyph> radix: a gun.
392
<glyph> radix: correction: a gun and a big pile of money :)
394
<mothra> Most large software projects are disasters. Nothing new there.
395
<dash> most large software projects use java or C++. not a coincidence.
397
<dash> the program isn't debugged until the last user is dead
399
<moshez> glyph: I prefer to think of it as a community project...since not every interface is equal
400
<moshez> some interfaces are more equal then others.
402
<det> glyph: why not use xml? (only because it is sort of a python standard [dont kill me])
404
<LiquidAngle> can you do socket programming with python ?
405
<dash> boy can you _ever_
407
<spiv> In python, you can, but in Java you can't.
408
[ this comment had context, but it's really just axiomatic --ed]
410
<faassen> I'm not a python luminary, I just play one on TV. :)
412
<h3x> but the point is, i dont have to juggle dlopen() bullshit
413
<h3x> because that gets old real fast
415
<glyph> shapr-werk: I can't even imagine the hell of having to write java while quitting smoking. I am behind you 100% ;)
416
<shapr-werk> glyph: yah, anyone in front of me has already been mauled :-)
418
<Krelin> glyph: You have created a powerful solution for which there are no problems. Everyone is impressed, but duly confused.
420
<radix> crack! *that's* what I need!
422
<glyph> I like writing code that overloads operators in python
425
<Yosomono> rasterman is the millionth monkey
427
<solomon> john tesh get out of my head!
429
<dash> i want distributed everything
432
<parks> glyph please please dont jump on the P2P XML bandwagon
433
<dash> parks: satan will be buying ice skates before glyph does that
435
<shapr> this is where I tell you to stop hyperfocussing on bad stuff and think about something nifty like metaclasses or sex
437
* itamar loves changing an object's own class at run time
438
<snibril> itamar: and you eat little babies, too
440
<TQuid> So glyph is a master of the occult as well as the obscure. :)
442
<glyph> "What?" "Take the red continuation." "What?" "Take the blue continuation." "Huh?" "Take the red continuation." "What?"...
444
* rik cheers for twisted python
445
<rik> it's the easiest network coding toolkit I've come across
446
<rik> as soon as you have the flash of inspiration as to how it works, you'll not look back
448
<dnm> ugh. linear cosmologist fever.
450
<e> we have powers that reach beyond the pickle
452
<TQuid> "No one expects the python acquisition!"
454
<laotse> I'm sorry. I used to be sane. Then I learned Perl and now I'm like this. ;)
455
<dash> laotse: that's my excuse too
456
<dash> laotse: that, and 4 years of university CS
458
<h3x> i get my best programming done in the nude
460
<timmy> what is the recommended way to do client sockets in python
461
<e2d2@ircnet> timmy: a chainsaw! AHAHAHAHA!
462
* e2d2@ircnet goes back to sleep
464
<Acapnotic> No more doc about twist-dee, needs another page or three...
465
<Acapnotic> You call this an application server? This is a slide projector and a bedsheet!
466
* Acapnotic is going to have to speak to Bob about this.
468
<phed> dash: that's the cool part of system programming, programming half-finished programs, and tell others you're finished
470
<dash> if i'm going to use an obscure language with poor system integration, it might as well be lisp
472
<radix> I feel so special when people quote me
474
<spiv> dash: so we need to wrap integers... Java does that too, so it can't be that bad ;)
475
* dash doesn't know how to respond to that except with physical violence
477
<glyph> It's just like a method call, but ON FIRE AND UPSIDE DOWN!!!
479
<dash> design patterns in general are just java/c++ crutches
480
<dash> which isn't to say they're useless. when your language is crippled you need crutches
482
<laotse> Java is the tell me when I've been bad language ;)
484
<e> so he is writing a python interpreter in python
485
<firegod> dash: is he actually that evil?
486
<dash> firegod: for glyph, this is relatively non-evil.
488
<gary> btw, my gcc compile line is gcc -o foo foo.o includes.o -lstdcxx is there I can cut that stdcxx out? My executables are like half a meg.
490
<glyph> if you didn't want your executables to be huge and slow for no reason, you could stop using c++ :)
492
<glyph> the industry average per programmer/day is 10 lines
493
<gary> yeah I know. its sorta sad.
494
<gary> have you ever wanted to, like, be part of the backstreet boys or something? It would probably make life quite easier. Or at least different.
495
[This is what C++ does to your brain, kids. -ed]
497
<red_one> PORK IS NOT A VERB.
499
* shapr reads market speak
500
<shapr> Vertical navigation through business domain trees (classification trees).
501
<shapr> Horizontal navigation through multidimensional classification trees.
502
<shapr> I bet moshe wrote this advertising
504
<snibril> glyph: others do secret sex perversities, and you join #c++
506
<jumpy> we are the knights who say INT! SHORT! and UNSIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGNNNNNNNNNNNEDDDDDDDDDDDDD LONNNNNNNNNGGGGGG!
508
<saint_go@efnet> Why?
509
<dash> because C++ is an excellent language for doing slow and late projects in. :)
510
<makk@efnet> dash: at least it's good for something. :)
512
KaraNiSuru: who needs a real live girl when you can get thousands of prettier girls displayed on a gorgeous 1365x768 resolution, 16.7 million color flat-panel plasma tv?
514
<radix> yeah, I saw that OBSOLETE_base attribute and thought to myself "Maybe glyph already tried this, and found that it sucks"
516
<jafo> Our fathers were our models for God. If they bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to be prepared for the possibility that God does not like you.
518
<Acapnotic> ... whenever I hear anything in this channel that smacks my brain three feet into kata, chances are that glyph is the one that said it
520
<hunter> ... I'm execfile()'ing a file provided by j random sysadmin, so I'm pretty much holding a gun to my head.
522
<deeptape> I just got a vision of a version of Gaunlet that pits Pythonistas against an endless horde of C++ and Java zealouts
523
<deeptape> Red Hacker needs Source, Badly
525
--> java (dutkiewicz@91.portland-01-02rs.or.dial-access.att.net) has joined #python
527
<-- java (dutkiewicz@91.portland-01-02rs.or.dial-access.att.net) has left #python
528
<glyph> goodbye, java
529
<glyph> hehe, that's surprisingly satisfying to say
531
<glyph> dash! dash! he's our man! If he can't do it, we'll make him write in ASP until he dies! bwahahhaha
532
<dash> i hate you, milkman glyph
534
<thirmite> i have <glyph> and <dash> both subbed to the one message: <tpy> $1-
537
<glyph> it sounds like you have some issues
538
<thirmite> duh i've been hanging around #python for around 4 years
539
<thirmite> i have every issue possible
541
<Acapnotic> glyph: why are you being an asshole and insisting on seven bits instead of eight, anyway?
542
<glyph> Acapnotic: because I gave up that bit in exchange for eternal life
544
<churchr> XML wasn't invented. It was excreted.
546
<faassen> I'm not a PSU agent.
548
<thirmite> i *think* i have a girlfriend
550
<dash> roey: i've got some code you should look at
551
<dash> roey: http://twistedmatrix.com/
552
<Acapnotic> dash: it's amazing how much you can make "I've got some code you
553
should look at" sound like "do you have stairs in your house?"
555
<Mike_L> hmm ELF sounds complex =/
556
* Mike_L hates file formats
557
<Mike_L> i suppose I could just make my bytecode file format based on XML
559
<glyph> I am *not* a PSU agent.
561
<dash> glyph: nice people dont name functions "b1282int"
563
<jemfinch> I mean, if GNU wants everything to use guile, they should probably make it suck less.
565
<dash> i feel the power of the confusatron
567
<Yosomono> [Ying] is a fantastic artist, that's for certain.
569
<shapr> so, is the twisted crowd moving to Oz?
570
<dash> shapr: no. Oz is coming to _us_
572
<h3x> why dosent someone write a rfc or w3 spec on server push text fields?
573
<Acapnotic> look, everybody knows that "push" had it's chance, and it flunked. Pushing failed. Pushing is not the answer.
574
<dash> Acapnotic: SHOVING IS THE ANSWER
575
<Acapnotic> yes, shoving is the answer. We must have shoving streaming media. "I am the shover transport -- I push the newsfeed down their throats."
577
<mitiege> dash: where do you go to school?
579
<mitiege> tpck: didn't faassen go there too?
581
<eihrul> .NET is kinda the quickening
583
<shapr> we're all CODEpendant.
585
<robbe@ircnet> AttributeError: CMD
586
<robbe@ircnet> what is here the failure?!?
587
<radix> robbe: the 'cmd' object doesn't have a member named CMD
588
<robbe@ircnet> radix: how i can make it?
589
<radix> robbe: set us up the bomb
591
<M-x> sure, excessive use of the Emacs causes social problems
592
<M-x> in understanding the trivial problems other people have
593
<M-x> like you see them indenting a whole file of source code manually, or jumping between make output and trying to find the offending line
595
<dash> "COM Error: Errors occurred"
596
* dash attacks ASP with a rusty hacksaw blade
598
<lyn:#lisp> making things fast generally seems to involve trading space for time
599
<dan`b:#lisp> not so! you're thinking like a typical lisp programer
600
<dan`b:#lisp> you can also trade correctness, like any self-respecting C hacker
602
<shapr> dash: I know Python adds sanity points to me.
603
<dash> shapr: reading glyph's code does not
605
<tireg> i see the light!!
606
<tireg> AND IT BURNS!
607
<dash> tireg: welcome to python
609
<Acapnotic> jemfinch: What's to parse? A numeric code, perhaps a chicken, and some arguments
611
<Acapnotic> dash: yes, about that, do you have anything besides spam?
612
<dash> Acapnotic: got spam, spam, internet, enterprise, and spam
613
<dash> Acapnotic: that doesn't got _much_ spam
615
<itamar> if moshez ever gets into the Python RPG he'll have "different definitions of basic concepts leads to conflicts with everyone" as a disadvantage
617
<e@ircnet> meikan adsl:n asennus makso sentaan muistaakseni 3000 ja silta
618
sedalta meni 10min :)
619
<e@ircnet> oops, wrong channel
622
<dash> radix: ph34r the ph1nn1sh!
624
<matsaleh> glyph has been *trying* to bring me up to speed on twisted
625
<matsaleh> all I know is that if he gets any smarter i'm in trouble
626
<dash> matsaleh: we already are, i think
628
<moshez> glyph: what's Twisted Matrix Laboratories?
629
<dash> moshez: the only enemy the PSU fears
631
<radix> scripts are just usually short programs that do a very specific thing
632
<radix> that's why a lot of us people who use interpreted languages hate it when someone calls our language a "Scripting language" ;)
633
<radix> (I mean, look at Twisted and call it a "script" with a straight face)
635
<Afterglow> glyth: what's odd is i keep getting a segfault and i don't know why
636
<glyph> Afterglow: are you using C?
638
<glyph> Afterglow: ah. There's your problem.
640
<peryklez> should i learn python?
641
<moshez> peryklez: no. instead, you should be an anarcho-vegeterian.
642
<moshez> peryklez: here, see this channel? Do you ever see us talking about Python? No! Because Python sucks.
643
<glyph> peryklez: Yes. You should learn python.
644
<glyph> peryklez: Also, stay away from crack cocaine, which moshez is evidently smoking...
646
<radix> well, running it works well :>
647
<glyph> radix: yeah, but don't ask what it does because it'll KILL YOU WITH
650
<dnm_> Twisted tickles my high-level competent software design and concisely functional code that does something useful which was done poorly elsewhere in comparison bones.
652
<snibril> radix: i met some _professional_ (or supposed-to-be) admins that had probs even with "ldd"
653
<dash> snibril: so, uh.... what did these guys _do_?
654
<snibril> dash: ask stupid qs
656
<e@ircnet> on the internet the concepts of time and space lose meaning
658
<matsaleh> well, maybe we should evangelize a bit...
659
<matsaleh> one thing to do would be to convince some kind of public site - techie oriented - to use twisted in some implementation
660
<glyph> any ideas come to mind?
661
<matsaleh> start small... google? :)
663
<radix> I was drinking tea before this job
665
<LcModerator:#live> <radix> have you heard of Twisted? Did you know that TwistedMatrix Laboratories is the only feared enemy of the PSU?
666
<gvanrossum:#live> radix: I've heard of Twisted and even downloaded his code once, but I couldn't understand one bit of it. Twisted, if you're here, sorry, but that's a fact.
667
<gvanrossum:#live> The PSU, of course, doesn't exist.
668
<dash:#python> radix: you're a bad, bad boy
670
<snibril> guido, when will you stop calling python a scripting language? ;)
672
<gvanrossum:#live> zilch: I'm a big fan of wxPython [...]
673
<radix:#python> I no longer respect that man
675
<gvanrossum:#live> What afro?
677
<dash> jenn: you DONT FEEL LIKE PROGRAMMING? what's WRONG with you??
679
<Erwin> #python FAQ: How do I build X? A: Wait for twisted.X.
681
<thirmite> i'm in the psu!
683
<e> most people on irc are professional and shit.
685
<dash> glyph: maybe that'd stop, if we stopped denying that the PSU is real and is actually coordina~~4%~~..~*'#n`+>~~.]
688
<rbm> glyph: Now I want to get more to your side of the darkness >:->
690
* Nafai will vouch for the fact of glyph's being the master of the obscure
692
<churchr> glyph: So why can't you make that into a database?
693
<glyph> churchr: I will set you on fire.
695
<skreech> I'm gonna kinda miss code red when its gone, my webpage has never gotten this many hits before
697
<Acapnotic> garble. if I don't find a twisted.spread example soon, I might try to figure out what .spread is supposed to do by looking at the source directly
698
<Acapnotic> which would probably be unhealthy
699
<dash> Acapnotic: hey! i've been reading the source for the past month! didididididn't bother me at all!
702
<Acapnotic> hmm. I wonder what would happen if you fed .bash_history to megahal and then set that as your shell.
704
<thirmite> the pull to IRC is so much less now i have my drivers license
705
<dash> thirmite: so why are you telling _us_ that? ;)
706
<thirmite> dash: who else am i gonna tell? :)
708
<thirmite> faassen: it was on the internet
709
<faassen> thirmite: don't use the internet.
710
<thirmite> i love the internet
711
<h3x> pike, the language of your internet
712
<Jii> what's internet?
714
<glyph> HELP ME SMALL CHILD I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO CREATE A WEB SERVER BUT I HAVE BECOME LOST
716
<glyph> I *hate* thinking.
718
<Acapnotic> Unlike BASIC, Python doesn't have circle-drawing and paint-fill operations either.
721
* rik wonders what glyph returns
722
<radix> rik: NOT_DONE_YET
724
<thirmite> dash: i don't really IRC while drunk *anymore*
726
<_pHI_> what is twised.words? and why did i just create an account :) ?
728
<churchr> I don't know why you guys want to hurt people.
729
<glyph> churchr: money, usually
730
<dash> glyph: wow, i can get _paid_ to hurt people?
731
<dash> they didn't mention this at Career Day
733
<glyph> ddent, the man who was born to program in python, but doesn't
734
<dash> glyph: you're thinking of his evil twin, "ndent".
735
<shapr> Python as Guido and ndent did.
737
<shapr> I am an object!
739
<glyph> you know, if I'm going to develop a massive cult of personality, I need to have a better website
741
<Inhibitor> this is commercial software - there are no security holes
742
<Inhibitor> not like your crappy open source - written by students - stuff
743
<glyph> right, I had forgotten
745
<e@ircnet> i have been known to occasionally infact say "internet".
747
<Yosomono@efnet> The next version of Shapr 0.96 will have integrated Twisted support.
749
<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: the colors! the colors! they're burning my eyes!
751
* shapr goes into his a capella techno rendition of "mission impossible"
752
<shapr> doodle oooo.... doodlee ooo!!
753
<radix> doodlee ooo??
754
<radix> I don't remember that part
755
<shapr> radix: yah, that's at the beginning
756
<bitPoet> radix: that's before the duh-duh-duhduh-duh-duh-duhduh part
758
<bram> talking about the engineering of p2p apps is like talking about the engineering of red cars
760
<thirmite> well the only way i could think of a girl turning me into a vegetarian is by offering me continous sexual favours, but that wouldn't work on glyph because he has some sort of dignity
762
<glyph> no land wars in asia or sicilian blood feuds
765
<glyph> it's easy to be dogmatic when you're right and everyone else is an idiot
767
<e@ircnet> thirmite: we added window manager support to bridgette.
768
<thirmite> e: i hope you're drunk
770
<e@ircnet> error handling is important, arguing tha silent failure is ok for "production systems" does not alleviate problems when something goes wrong with "production systems" :)
772
<h3x> everybody is left of something
774
<glyph> but one person's identity could have multiple perspectives
775
<e@ircnet> multiple perspective disorder
777
<e@ircnet> glyph: that would make twisted the most buzzword compliant application server platform known to man!
779
<glyph> "Fetch me my internet pants."
781
<moshez> What is programming, if not fighting a world of idiotic design decisions?
782
<moshez> And where can you find design decisions more idiotic?
783
<glyph> moshez: landscaping
784
<moshez> glyph: hmmm......point.
786
<eAndroid> Guido has been on crack for a while.
787
<eAndroid> I think he bought some cheap stuff, that's all
789
<dash> this feels like saving christmas from santa claus
790
[on trying to prevent Guido from making python less dynamic]
792
<e@ircnet> fwiw writing a sexp parser in virtually any language is easier than learning to use xml libraries for that platform.
794
* Blackb|rd has been spoiled by years of C and C++ and the hideous exposition to Java 1.0.2
795
<radix> Blackb|rd: not "spoiled", "mentally mutilated"
799
<glyph> GENERATE CODE!
800
* dash runs around in circles screaming, then falls over
801
<glyph> INTRODUCE INSTABILITY!
804
<adu> i'm a great hacker, but i'm horrible at thinking of things to hack
805
<glyph> adu: you are my new best friend
807
<dash> wal-mart, purveyor of fine $9.48 chinese keyboards
809
<itamar|nyc> think positive thoughst and then cat /dev/urandom > file
811
* radix would rather go see glyph than Linus :-)
814
<dash> radix: you laugh a bit too quickly for someone who's working with a
815
project with a business plan based on a pokey cartoon
817
<moshez> If I wanted to code with syntax highlighting, I'd just take LSD. 'My, what a green comment'
819
<dreid> twisted can do pretty much anything if glyph gets drunk enough
821
<deltab> glyph: there's something strangely fitting about being able to "from internet import delay"
823
<TQuid> Jesus shit. Is there anything twisted doesn't do, or at least doesn't intend to do?
826
<Acapnotic> What do you get out of writing docstrings if you can't confuse, mislead, and infuriate your audience?
828
<gt3> i thought i had mono once for an entire year, turned out it was cuz i was using Perl
830
<dash> det: our chief weapons are misinformation and asynchronous networking
831
<det> dash: at least you can deliver it at maximum effieciency
833
<dash> (breaking encapsulation for fun and profit since 1998!)
835
<dash> bask in the rosy glow of my ignorance
837
<Tv> So, now there's my way, a simpler way, _and_ the correct way? I'm getting confused.
838
<Tv> Back when I was a youngster, there was just my way and the correct way :)
840
<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: you're telling me I'm 6 months behind you?
841
<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: that makes sense, considering the time lag between film releases in the US and Japan =)
843
<Yosomono@efnet> Twisted: Bring Out Yer Dead (Paradigms)
845
<Yosomono@efnet> Fuck, what's this world coming to?
846
<thirmite> yosomono: obviously something less than good.
849
<Tv> I can encode and decode arbitrary ASN.1 structures :)
852
<wondr> ever since they moved over to twisted google has seemed a little bit flaky
854
<itamar|nyc> twisted is what medusa should've been, I think
856
<moshez> glyph: yes, TCP connection forwarder is good.
857
<illume> why not twisted.internet.tcp_forwarder then?
858
<moshez> illume: because I wanted to use the word "stupid" in code.
860
e2d2 (~erno@2002:d432:8efa:0:0:0:0:1) joined on ircnet
861
<e2d2@ircnet> internet 6!
863
<dash> web in my head get it out get it out
865
<radix> yosomono: One of these days, I'm going to actually see what you do
866
<Yosomono> radix: You will turn to stone almost immediately
868
<mothra> i'm not sexist, women are just a pain in the ass
870
<eAndroid> win still has fork though right?
872
<eAndroid> hmm. no wonder my daemons don't work
874
<jedin> Know any good informational/instructional sites on Prolog?
875
<glyph> kill yourself now
876
<jedin> But I just vacuumed!
879
<glyph> redoz: I've been working on twisted for a while
881
<chrchr> glyph: Most people in this channel haven't even been _alive_ for two years.
883
<glyph> BLOCKING OPERATIONS ARE NEVER VALID!
884
<glyph> HAVE YOU SET YOUR SOCKET'S BLOCKING FLAG TO ZERO SMALL CHILD??
886
<shapr> I've never used a small child as a flag.
887
<shapr> not even once.
888
<glyph> shapr: MAKE SURE YOU BRING LOTS OF STAPLES!
890
<mothra> cars have the same beauty of form as women, without the nagging
891
<glyph> mothra: maybe your issues with women stem from that misunderstanding
892
<glyph> mothra: to start, women are *soft*, whereas cars are not
894
<radix> so are you coming to IPC10?
895
<dash> if you, me, moshez, and glyph end up in the same room though, we may
896
assemble into a giant robot and lay waste to virginia
897
<dash> and that's always inconvenient
899
<mbac> would it be foolish of me to wish java banished to the depths of hell and in it's place is python?
901
<Rainy-Day> dash: i think you know what it means but for odd reasons make it
902
look like you don't :P
903
<radix> Rainy-Day: he does that a lot
906
<Rainy-Day> it's annoying as hell!
907
<dash> Rainy-Day: is it really?
909
<dash> my plan has succeeded!!
911
<bitPoet> all of twisted is probably like 3 lines of apl
913
<radix> thirmite: we're not a 3rd world country. =)
914
<dash> radix: not this week anyway
916
<glyph> let's have some more corporations
917
<glyph> then we can absolve all individuals acting on their behalf of
918
responsibility and collude with the government to steal money!
919
<dash> glyph: YES! where do i sign up?
920
<glyph> dash: www.microsoft.com, look for "passport"
922
<jafo> If java had real garbage-collection, it would delete most programs
923
before it executed them.
925
<dash> (hacking implies the use of an edged tool, java isn't sharp ;)
927
(context: http://yellow5.com/pokey/archive/index76.html)
928
[glyph] pokey's taste for the cereal reminds me of my own preference for python :-)
929
[glyph] "GLYPH THEY ARE USING WOOD GLUE AS AN OBJECT MODEL!"
930
[glyph] "I WANT ANOTHER INSTANCE"
932
<liiwi> hrmpf. python compared to to perl is like c++ compared to c
933
<dash> liiwi: so, which are you implying? that C++ is a good thing, or that
934
python is a bad thing?
935
<dash> liiwi: either way we have to kill you, i think
937
<radix> It's gonna take a lot of effort ripping reality apart
938
<glyph> it's going to be almost as hard to stand idly by while you do so :-)
940
<glyph> no, you kill my CODE :-)
942
<Rainy-Day> no? jesus was like, love thy neighbour and shit
944
<spiv> NeuroMorphus: That's not really meaningful, though.
945
<NeuroMorphus> spiv: it's not a matter of meaning, it's an assignment
947
<radix> man, Rune better kick ass
948
<radix> this demo I'm downloading is *90MB*
949
<radix> games are so huge these days
950
<radix> In my time a game that filled up a whole 1.4MB diskette was big!
951
<Erwin> You know what else I noticed? Today's 21" monitors are bigger than
952
yesterday's 14" monitors :)
955
<bitPoet> the full name of the enterprise is probably something buzzword-
956
compliant like "scalable enterprise java interspacial XML warp drive", it's
957
just "enterprise" for short :-)
959
<dnm> Someone quote me already.
960
<dnm> I'm trying to plithy.
962
<skreech> some say there is documentation in them there hills
964
<Acapnotic> "Required course materials: 1 copy of 'Java and You', an installation of JBuilder+, and a HID vomit-proofing kit for each workstation you will use."
966
<glyph> jafo: Are you ircing as you *DRIVE*!?
967
<dash> glyph: well, duh
968
<dash> glyph: cant pull over every time you want to say something
970
<glyph> h3x: so... you're a professional extortionist?
972
<glyph> h3x: do you offer professional apprenticeships?
974
<dash> glyph: gah, you beat me to it
976
<glyph> dash: So while we're on the subject, are there features you feel the PB protocol lacks at its lowest level that you might find useful?
977
<Acapnotic> (Like the "YOU FUCKED UP AN SUBCLASSED THE WRONG THING, MORON!" feature? :)
978
<glyph> Acapnotic: If python had decent metaclasses, ViewPoint would scream profanity at you personally, but until that time, I'll have to do it by proxy.
979
<glyph> Acapnotic: Do you have a phone in your house? ;-)
980
<Acapnotic> glyph: Yeah, it's right by the stairs. Why do you ask?
982
<itamar> stuouid keyboard hates me
984
<Nanosecond> And BTW, we taliban guys use Macs. All of us.
986
<Gand> <sigh> ... first day as a python programer and already I have to start writing my own functions ...
988
<Acapnotic> My computer is playing reggae out of thin air!
990
<e@ircnet> pcmC0D0c pcmC0D0p pcmC0D1p pcmC0D2c pcmC0D2p
991
<glyph> e: are those the lyrics to some weird finnish music?
992
<e@ircnet> glyph: not yet
994
<dash> guess there's a fine line between "tilting at windmills" and "hitting the fan"
996
<thirmite> what's a web widget??
997
<glyph> thirmite: internet on a stick, on fire
998
<Acapnotic> with web sauce!
1000
<thirmite> bea: how are you?
1001
<bea> thirmite: not bored
1002
<thirmite> then why are you on IRC? ;)
1004
<Acapnotic> something's wrong, none of the tests failed
1006
<Tenshihan> then where does modular programming come from?
1007
<dash> Tenshihan: the lesser magellanic cloud
1008
<glyph> dash: the origin of the modular programming technique is classified!
1010
<Rugal> Do I have to study something else in order to use twisted? i mean, is
1011
twisted to python how C++ is to java?
1013
[Just another night in #Python... -ed]
1014
* X86BSD-H throws a ball of yarn in front of rik
1015
* rik watches it bounce past
1016
* X86BSD-H needs to get a G4 PB
1017
* dreid beats system-wide fetchmail with a stick
1018
* rik looks at X86BSD-H
1020
<radix> but a year of python programming is like 5 years of C programming
1021
<radix> because in those 5 years of C programming about 4 of them are dealing
1022
with memory management
1024
--> bdash (mark21rowe@chch-d109.connections.net.nz) has joined #python
1025
<Deep6> oh no! its the lower grade dash!
1027
<glyph> dash: let me put it another way -- I will upgrade to 2.2, if for no
1028
other reason than to bitch on clp.
1030
<det> pokey reminds me of yosomono
1031
<det> except on drugs
1033
<radix> it's kind of interesting to think about twisted philosophically
1034
<radix> it's basically a bunch of APIs layered on top of each other
1035
<radix> each one making a task easier to do
1036
<dreid> until finally trained monkeys can do it
1037
<dreid> "Twisted, the framework of a million monkeys with typewriters."
1039
<radix> rep's just this happy little lisp
1040
<radix> and CL is the giant living on the mountain
1041
<radix> rarraa I'm 8MB!
1043
<radix> man, everyone else has cool programming fathers but me
1044
<radix> I'm going to be a cool programming father to a kid some day
1045
<dash> radix: i'm going to have a lot of kids and teach them all to play quake.
1046
<dash> radix: we'll be the best clan in the state.
1051
<radix> glyph just had an idea
1053
<glyph> It's interesting that people often say "Hey, I'm looking for
1054
something to work on!"
1055
<glyph> then someone else says "Glyph's code needs a little help." then
1056
the original asker says "SWEET MARY MOTHER OF GOD I'M NOT TOUCHING THAT!
1057
I mean, uh, that's too much work or I'm not good at it. Or something."
1059
<tpck> You want me to read and understand and then rewrite a 795 line
1060
piece of code that contains doc strings like "WARNING! This source code
1061
for this method may cause your eyeballs to melt."
1063
<itamar> ok, it's JAVA TIME FOR BOYS AND GIRLS
1065
<itamar> actually, I don't have the patience for java right now
1067
<sayke> Acapnotic: don't make it twisted-specific
1069
<dash> sayke: twisted isn't specific
1071
<tpck> merriam-webster is nothing to me
1073
<kingkill> glyph: i was under the impression you didn't like twisted
1075
<amien@efnet> ? swing is bad? :)
1077
<e2d2@ircnet> don't use threads :)
1078
<glyph> e2d2: it's java... you don't really have an option
1079
<e2d2@ircnet> don't use java :)
1080
<glyph> e2d2: sage words
1082
*** Signoff: glyph[Ping timeout for glyph]
1083
*** glyph joined channel #python
1084
* Nafai wonders if glyph is really there
1085
<Yosomono> He's never really been "all there"
1086
<Acapnotic> glyph is never *really* there, but sometimes the probablitiy
1087
becomes high enough that he influences internet.
1088
<Yosomono> He's like an electron cloud.
1089
<Yosomono> You can't really tell where he is at a given moment, just a
1091
<Yosomono> Also, you can't tell both where he is AND how much coding he's
1092
doing at the same time.
1093
<Yosomono> This is the Glyphenberg Uncertainty principle
1095
<glyph> I probably shouldn't think of it as an accomplishment that I manage
1096
to cancel all of my social- and entertainment-oriented engagements on friday
1099
<flippo> When programming languages started using four-letter names, APL was
1102
<datazone> glyph: you are stupid
1104
<radix> continuations make me want to hurt you, dash
1105
<dash> continuations made me want to hurt a lot of people
1107
<radix> you're a pragmatic bastard, dash :)
1110
<mbac> all my life i've hated object oriented programming
1111
<mbac> when the problem was simply that i was using C++
1113
<MoonFallen> how well does twisted work with xml?
1114
<radix> MoonFallen: PUT YOUR FACE INTO THE JELLY
1116
<radix> MoonFallen: well, there is a very simple xml-rpc implementation
1117
<radix> MoonFallen: but we generally don't like to talk about it
1119
<Acapnotic> When you're holding an automatic weapon, a remarkable number of things become your choice.
1121
<dash> if perl is a swiss army chainsaw, this is a dynamically reconfigurable
1124
<radix> skreech: hey guess what!
1126
<radix> skreech: exciting night tonight
1127
<skreech> radix: women?
1128
<radix> skreech: twisted release! =D
1129
<skreech> radix: YES!!!!!!!!!!
1131
<radix> I know you live for these moments, skreech
1133
<skreech> Lemme get my Twisted-Release-socks
1134
<skreech> and noisemakers
1136
<glyph> backinasec,Ibrokemyspacebar
1138
Let the record show that on Saturday, November 24th 2001, at 8:38 PM UTC,
1139
Glyph Lefkowitz did speak thusly:
1141
"OK. I have a crack-laden idea.
1142
or perhaps a crack-destroying id
1143
Deferreds are confusing as hell
1144
Let's just use threads."
1146
<radix> I HATE METAPHORS
1148
<dash> wow. this code does something highly entertaining, but nowhere near correct
1150
<skreech> I can feel my brain
1152
<nikon_> i want to live in a country thats run by beautiful large breasted women
1154
<itamar> def revenueGenerator():
1157
<mothra> one day i want my life to be so automated that getting out of bed will
1158
be a configuration option
1160
<moshez_> I love portraying prejudices
1162
<skreech> its only 10:40pm here
1163
<skreech> everyones going to *sleep?*
1164
<Intention> I am staying up! There is much to read on the web.
1166
[in regards to http://www.askemos.org/]
1167
<glyph> he is *completely* insane :)
1169
<dash> glyph: i hope he IRCs
1170
<dash> this seems like a person i could hurl abuse at for hours
1172
<e2d2@ircnet> verwilst: debugging is easier when you read the error messages :)
1174
[dreid] i'd like to learn Forth at some point also
1175
[dash] save it for last
1176
[dash] forth has the power to destroy minds
1177
[dreid] sorta the snowcrash of programming languages?
1179
<moshez_> dash: I'm a very nice man, except in hypothetical situations
1181
<Intention> Moral: HOORAY FOR PYTHON. IT CAN GET YOU LAID.
1183
<glyph> steve: Are you the creator of the Grease(TM) Plan for Internet Success?
1184
<steve> glpyh: i'm just a vessel for Grease
1186
<Intention> Twisted did raise me from the dead after two weeks. It is a miracle
1187
of software engineering.
1189
<Kuja> Wow twisted can do all that.
1191
<radix> Thain: I think the point is that you'd be hacking C code, not python
1192
<Thain> but c is easy...what's your point?
1194
<chrchr> dsmith: Twisted is neat, but unfortunately, it's not object-oriented.
1196
<datazone> twisted is madness
1198
<skreech> glyph: SUDDEN INTeRNET!!
1200
<Pahan> hunter2: RedHat is an evil distro of death! How could you not know this?
1201
<hunter2> Pahan: um, as a former employee and current stockholder, I probably
1202
didn't know due to brainwashing. :)
1203
<Pahan> hunter2: Oh.
1205
<itamar> jail time and 50K fines are great marketing tools
1207
<mcc> My justification for java's existence is "it's not quite as bad as c++"
1209
Broadcast Message from carmstro@zaibach
1210
(/dev/pts/21) at 2:24 ...
1212
who needs IRC when you can w4llx0r
1218
* dash holds up his "WILL WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS FOR FOOD" sign
1219
* Nafai holds up his "WILL FOLLOW AROUND dash TO WRITE PROGRAMS THAT WRITE PROGRAMS" sign
1220
* Nafai holds up underneath a sign reading "HOPING HE MAY ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING"
1222
<comatoast> hm, you could join #artois on DALnet if you're interested in making
1223
a version of C++ that doesn't suck
1224
<dash> comatoast: uh
1225
<dash> comatoast: i am experiencing extreme cognitive dissonance
1227
<resolve> we are the freedom police! you must stop this happyness right now.
1229
<jafo> I used to hang out with this chick that ran a BBS.
1230
<jafo> She had a great baud.
1232
<__funky__> so where's the real python channel?
1236
<glyph> Actually, they all need for Twisted. They burn for it in the very
1237
core of their souls, like a vampire's thirst for blood. Programmers NEED
1238
twisted; existance without it is a pale shadow of the righteous glory that
1239
the Twisted hacker can achieve.
1241
<chrchr> I'll like anything for money.
1243
<thirmite_> radix: you dropped out?
1244
<radix> thirmite: yeah.
1245
<thirmite_> <GenericBoy> yay i am at college;<radix> #python has made me cynical
1248
<sayke> dash: i wasn't sure what to call the system daemon/service/kernel
1249
module/things, so i called them "gods" and made them into a pantheon. i
1250
then made a creation myth as a metaphor for the system boot process, which
1251
i combined with a programming-as-magik analogy to form a user interface
1252
vocabulary roughly reminiscent of, well, crowleyian wizardry.
1253
<dash> sayke: you are a special and unique person
1255
<itamar> I want to kill someone
1259
<moshez> "I give thy soul to the gods of the web, may they take this offering and grant us sane protocols"
1261
<moshez> the only reason to get a life is to get a girl
1262
<moshez> I'm hoping to get a girl without the seemingly mandatory life thing
1264
<moshez> itamar: no specific plans
1265
<moshez> just random hopes ;-)
1267
<Intention> KRIS KROSS'LL MAKE YOU LONGJMP SETJMP
1269
<glyph> You should want me dead, you'll get all my stuff.
1270
<cyli> I don't want you dead -- I get all your stuff anyway.
1272
<thirmite_> if you had 100k to spend on an engine why would you make a game? :)
1273
<radix> thirmite: so you can make a million dollars off of it
1274
<thirmite_> radix: i'd still rather buy a dedicated server in the US that did
1275
nothing but email dash spam on c++
1277
<dash> i remember those days.
1278
<dash> the world was cold and without hope....
1279
<dash> twisted had not been released yet.
1281
* dash feels the idea "3d postgres-db visualisation with twisted, pyopengl, and pygame" waft through his brain
1282
<glyph> dash: uh-oh, you've caught the asbahr wave
1284
<itamar> who is megahal?
1285
<itamar> does he do bar-mitzvahs?
1287
<radix> I'm fighting a huge cat with breasts
1288
<spiv> radix: Congratulations. I think.
1289
<e> i have trouble imagining how you fight with breasts
1291
<sayke> i moved left, [the cow] moved left. i moved right, [the cow] moved
1292
right. i yelled "WHY ARE YOU IN MY WAY? MOVE!!", and waited a second for it to
1293
concoct a reply. when none was forthcoming, i dropped into stance and kicked
1296
<dash> i can think of ways to do it but they're mostly evil. what are you doing?
1298
<thirmite> i want one of those jobs where you get people out of cults
1300
<thirmite> by blowing up cult headquarters
1302
<glyph> I love the fact that there's apparently a text-based Tribes-2 deathmatch going on interspersed with the argument though.
1304
<Darkvise> I guess you could say that Windows and Linux are like two different chicks. Windows gets along with most people and it knows how to party but she's been with so many guys that you dont know what virus she might be carrying, and Linux could be some nerdy chick who may not seem that attractive on the outside but she's not shallow and braindead like Windows.
1306
<tenth> One of our prospective clients has been asking about using MSSQL for his database
1307
<tenth> He can use whatever he wants. MSSQL just isn't currently supported. (So if it wakes him up in the dark hours of the morning with shrill, piping calls and cries of "Yig! Yig!" and immerses him in sanity-shattering cosmic horror, which MSSQL 6.7 has been known to do, he can't call tech support about it.)
1308
<tenth> "Okay... What version of BusinessMind are you using? Good... okay, what database are you using? Hmm... Well, what does it say at the top of the window? Is it a red border, or a blue border, or a shimmering band of tones and shades seeming only barely within the reach of human eyes, both confusing and terrible to look upon? Colour Out Of Space? yeah, sorry, we don't support that one. You should get MySQL."
1309
<glyph> Warning! Kill songs unsung while still unheard [y/N]?
1310
<tenth> "Please enter the number of songs you wish to kill (up to the maximum displayed next to the field) and click the Yellow Sign to continue."
1311
<tenth> BusinessMind For Those Who Cannot Be Named
1314
<glyph> took the call and emerged testicles intact.
1315
* dash points out to glyph, needlessly, that he has issues
1316
<radix> dash: I think they're calling them "women" these days
1318
<johs> Oh, please. Threads ownz j00.
1320
<ThreeSeas> maybe it's be easier if I used te metaphor of the matrix characters?
1321
<dash> ThreeSeas: no
1323
<chrchr> radix: A software engineer is somebody who can extend a system without reading any code.
1325
<glyph> funny. I'm looking at twistedmatrix.com right now and the most recent
1326
version is still 0.13.0
1328
<radix> glyph: find a QOTR
1330
<glyph> dash: Isn't "efficiency" supposed to be your department? :)
1331
<dash> glyph: "crack" is my department.
1332
* radix gets depressed because his department is "bitch"
1334
<radix> What the hell was I thinking?
1335
<dash> radix: get used to that feeling
1336
<dash> that feeling is called "design" ;)
1338
<Nafai> Wait. I think I got it to work!
1341
<Nafai> Houston, we have a contact manager!
1342
<glyph> Nafai: austin.
1344
<itamar> two more webmonkey days, and then I'm off to the USA
1345
* shapr hands a web-banana to itamar
1346
<desaster@ircnet> my god, the banana is full of ads
1348
<cheeser> i think the general method of developing address books is to write a random number generator and use that as input for any decision making.
1350
<glyph> e: look upon my work, o kings, and despair!
1351
* e@ircnet viewcvs'es
1352
<glyph> e: aren't you going to "viewcvs and despair"? ;)
1353
<e@ircnet> i will despair once i see it.
1355
<e@ircnet> when i die i want to be dried into a scary looking dried up corpse and be used to scare young children
1357
<Acapnotic> he just logged the fact that he got r3wt0rz3d
1358
<radix> he's on windows
1359
<radix> it comes pre-rewted
1361
<itamar> we should lock z3p up in a protocol factory
1362
<z3p> self.factory.stopFactory(); self.factory.letMeEscape()
1364
<pjarks> today is a good day to install zope
1366
<faassen> I mean, geez, the guy thinks there is a conspiracy of programmers! a conspiracy
1367
related to programming!!
1368
<faassen> who'd have ever thought of that? :)
1370
<radix> I am just the bombest dude in the world
1372
"Alarm Sounds Like" -- Whoop Whoop
1374
<noa> did anyone cause the alarm to go off just to see what it sounds like?
1376
<ZC-Matt> You you *can* take an unwrapped object and stash it in a C module, poised to leap out at any unsuspecting transaction that wanders by.
1377
<zigg> ooo, above my head.
1378
<JimFulton> mine too. ;)
1380
--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to dash
1381
<dash> magc35us: you've got 30 seconds to be witty, relevant, or at least apologetic
1383
<Intention> How EXACTLY are cameras used to keep planes from hitting skyscrapers? Do they have laser attatchments?
1385
<draukuWORK> moshez, i signed the zope contributors agreement today... there goes my first born
1386
<draukuWORK> or any first born i may borrow
1388
<dash> glyph: go to #lisp and ask about relative pathnames. :)
1389
<chrchr> dash: Don't make him do that.
1390
<dash> chrchr: he knows better
1392
<Nafai> What to do, what to do.
1393
<Nafai> No class at all next week!
1394
* glyph gets the "documentation" hat and starts running after Nafai
1395
<Nafai> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
1396
* Nafai jumps on the snowboard and takes off
1398
<resolve> hah! java is the jerry springer of computer languages
1400
<matju> chrchr: the web will allow us to metaparadigmatically outpace
1401
innovation beyond the future
1402
<matju> chrchr: that's why it's so revolutionary
1404
--- shapr is now known as world
1407
<glyph> so we need to target this website to three groups -- end users, corporate shills, and open source developers
1408
<dash> and unfortunately JavaScript is not advanced enough to determine which is which.
1410
<exarkun> I think there's a rather large difference between a stale twinkie and a kernel swap daemon
1412
<stranger> ok i think i need a polymorphic language with continuations and closures to write this properly
1413
<stranger> should I give up and implement in C?
1415
<yosomono> When I was done with my first test gtk app using twisted, my first thought was "is that it?"
1417
<thirmite> srbaker: www.twistedmatrix.com - a framework for building
1418
asynchronous network based apps
1419
<dreid> in other words, doing cool stuff with little work and even less
1421
[*ahem*, hopefully not for long --ed]
1423
<glyph> if you've ever dealt with MS, it's like dealing with ... well, germany.
1424
<glyph> it's big and not everybody agrees on everything
1426
* skreech runs mothra over in his shrike.
1427
* dreid rushes to an inventory station and grabs a sniper rifle
1428
<resolve> hey skreech, i just went and made myself some lunch, and you're still doing that. :) i think it's time to stop
1430
* stampy tosses a fruitcake mortar skreech's way
1431
<skreech> NOT FRUITCAKE
1432
* stampy sprays skreech with napalm eggnog
1433
* skreech loses control of his shrike.
1436
<glyph> dash: it's a performance art version of t2, I think
1438
* dreid hands skreech a chaingun and dash a spinfuser
1439
* skreech jumps and jets.
1440
* Novas007 picks up a mortar
1441
* dash tries to work out which end to hold
1442
<skreech> dash: raaaatatatatatatatatata
1443
* moshez gets a radioactive spider to bite him
1444
<moshez> yay! I have spider-powers
1445
* Novas007 flies up to the nearest high place and begins raining mortars down
1448
* moshez uses his spider powers to help human kind.
1452
--- dash has changed the topic to: from enemy_base import flag
1454
* skreech throws a satchel charge in the middle of the channel.
1455
* dreid hides behind a generator
1456
<skreech> lets argue.
1458
<skreech> THE SENSOR NETWORK IS DOWN
1459
* skreech pilots his shrike into the side of #python
1461
* dreid fires his spinfuser at skreech
1462
<skreech> BAM!! Glyph's body flys across the map after being hit by skreech's shrike going 355kph!
1463
* skreech avoids various heat seaking missiles launched by mothra.
1464
<skreech> dreid's disc hits skreech's shrike and sits it veering into a hill.
1466
* skreech 's shrike flips upside down.
1467
<skreech> EJECT EJECT
1468
* skreech 's shrike explodes in a fiery ballness of flame.
1469
* dreid starts saturation bombing of the area where skreech's shrike crashed
1475
<Acapnotic> Ooh, I just figured out what my first twisted.reality creation will be.
1476
<dash> Acapnotic: oh?
1477
<Acapnotic> "Being Glyph Lefkowitz"
1479
* Intention enjoys very much being able to keep programs, editors, photo editors, and games runing for a week or more at a time without fucking up or crashing or making everything else slow. God bless younicks.
1480
<Intention> I never had even concieved of forgetting that programs were running until unix. Now it is like.. erm..
1482
<spiv> Apparently my company used to be a Linux company, many years ago.
1483
<spiv> The website consisted of Perl CGI scripts serving stock data.
1484
<spiv> We moved to Windows because someone couldn't figure out how to give our customers case-insenstive website logins.
1486
<radix> glyph: so, tell us about the trip!
1487
<radix> did you have fun?
1488
<glyph> radix: It was awesome. Sin is the best thing ever!
1490
<radix> xihr: while moshez is indeed completely insane, he's not much of an ass-talker
1492
<fooz> oh, mozart is "write once run anywhere" like java
1493
<fooz> that means it probably won't work on any platform I care about
1495
<liiwi> moshez: gotta squish radix to do 0.15.5 soon
1496
(oh, my god, it's spreading - Ed.)
1498
<Aardappel> this "I hate c++" is so old
1499
<dash> it's as old as C++, yes
1501
<Blue> glyph: USE TWISTED
1503
--> moshez (~moshez@p9.j3.actcom.co.il) has joined #python
1504
<itamar> look, it's moses!
1505
--- ameoba is now known as redC
1508
<itamar> Lesson of the day: you can't test the win32 event loop if you're not running the win32 event loop
1510
<Yosomono@efnet> radix: It looks pretty disturbing when you see a bunch of people beating the shit out of a leprechaun who has arrows sticking out of his head
1512
<glyph> I am tasting the pepperoni-pizza-combo flavored taste of independence.
1513
<matsaleh> don't let it go to your head
1514
<glyph> well, I still have a very strong sense of "I could crash into any of these objects at any time"
1515
<glyph> I figure as long as I hang on to that really tightly, I'll be OK
1516
<matsaleh> probably a good plan
1517
<matsaleh> one word of advice tho
1518
<matsaleh> don't drive for at least 1 hr after playing any FPS
1519
<matsaleh> everything looks like a power up
1521
<exarkun> twistedmatrix.com looks a lot different in netscape than it does in links
1522
<exarkun> I suddenly have a much higher opinion of twisted
1523
<exarkun> before I thought it was all garbage. now it is all garbage with a great web page
1525
<radix> ViperCA: you can make good websites without doing stupid shit, you know. :-)
1527
<Pahan> foot.get_owner's_gun_through_obscure_meta_tricks.shoot(self)
1529
<TheJester> .seen god
1530
<xena> God seen changing nickname to God_|Away|PersecutingAtheists ~ 52 day(s) 4 hr(s) 32 min(s) 58 sec(s) ago
1532
<itamar> we're ripe for a syndicalist-anarchist revolution ;)
1534
<radix> do you guys have a lot of those?
1536
<radix> the sysadmin of the future is going to know twisted-shelling like the back of his hand
1538
<Donatien_Alphonse> :) no promises - the truth may be a star, but we have a
1539
proper motion relative to it. Oneof my favorite quoites - a wise man I knew
1540
once said "Honor is truth in motion."
1541
<glyph> Donatien_Alphonse: A wise man I once new said "I invented the hippo!"
1542
It's not always best to live by the words of wise men.
1543
<stranger> Donatien_Alphonse: i'm beginning to think wise men should keep
1546
<Intention> Java and Squeak are sort of similar. They are both superdynamico and have their own widgety things and run in a VM. [Squeak] has way more colors though.
1548
<skreech> no matter what, when I come back to my #twisted window theres always 'squish' somewhere
1551
<red_one> is there a python that's statically typed?
1552
<exarkun> red_one: the south american red python is of static type
1554
* StevenK starts to plot a drive to Belgium, but gets stuck.
1555
<StevenK> Damn ocean.
1556
* moshez starts to plot a drive to Belgium, but gets stuck.
1557
<moshez> Damn arabs.
1559
<Intention> radix: Once upon a time, I truly GOT C++. This profound body of
1560
knowledge was so complex, it formed a separate personality in my head just to
1561
DEAL with the complexity without killing me. So every once in a while, when truly
1562
troubled, I flip to that personality. When I come back, I have no idea what
1563
happened. It's NIRVANA.
1565
<moshez> dash: you should go back for completions of logic...
1566
* dash points at his shirt
1567
<dash> "AUBURN GRADUATE (PAID)"
1568
<dash> i've done all the learning i'm ever going to do
1570
<moshez> Nafai: I once met a girl on a bus. She told me her name was Li. I proved to her Aleph null is less then 2 to the Aleph null. She gave me her phone #.
1571
<itamar> what does her name have to do with it?
1572
<moshez> itamar: Lie groups.
1574
<d1ver> python programmers?! it's not even a computer language - it doesn't even support proper tail recursion!
1576
<skreech> radix: apparantly, in stories, chinese ISPs have responded to being blocked by the rest of the world with "take block off"
1577
<skreech> take off every block for great justice!
1578
<skreech> someone set up us the packet filter
1581
<dash> BardCat: so. what's communism?
1582
<BardCat> dash: It's when a boy and a girl love each other, and then there is a cabbage and a baby!
1583
<dash> BardCat: wait
1584
<dash> BardCat: i thought that was syndicalism
1586
<gt3> perlsucks?yes:wtf_yes_it_does;
1588
<hmmm-@efnet> sitting here seeing stuff like <ry> <exarkun@opn> really makes me feel like a minion talking to his gods :P
1591
<dash> let's finish all this 'twisted' crap so we can write some fun stuff
1593
<skreech> WTF. The sf.net skill profile does not have a skill for "molecular biology"
1595
<dash> moshez: you aren't making sense now
1596
<moshez> dash: *now*? I'm not making sense *now*?
1598
<stranger> Hey! I've got an idea: <byte><bit value=1/><bit value=0/><bit value=0/>....</byte>
1600
<etcha@efnet> btw whats ry>? is it a kind of irc gateway?
1601
<e@ircnet> it's a bit like a mind flayer, except it also relays messages.
1603
<Pahan> Damn, I threw a horrible insult, and got no wise-ass retorts.
1604
<sayke> Pahan: i was just going to say "ask me about my apathy"
1605
<dash> sayke: he doesn't care about your apathy.
1607
<shapr> man I had a radix quality dream
1608
<shapr> it was about this guy who found a dinosaur preserved in ice, and removed its stomach, and surgically altered the stomach to be able to survive in lake awter by itself
1610
<gt3> i had a dream guido really did get hit by a bus
1612
<jafo> He's a nice guy.
1613
<gt3> then somehow twisted came standard with it after dash took over
1615
<gt3> but nice doesn't stop a bus
1617
<skreech> How do I keep people from reading my Perl code? Oh wait. Ha ha!
1619
<Acapnotic> I care not for your somnable teeth. I wish only to master the multipart/form-data
1621
<Tenshihan> why do drugs make us commit so many crimes?!
1623
<gt3> programming should be an adventure, those damn college courses make it so its like yer joining the navy seals so you can work at sea world as a whale feeder
1625
<Jii> "internet with python" spells twisted
1627
<Qelf> Did you doods find it hard when you 1st started?
1628
<dash> Qelf: well sure
1629
<dash> Qelf: in fact i would characterise my programming education as being in a state of near-permanent confusion
1631
<ElectricElf> infinity: M-x font-lock-mode
1632
<ElectricElf> infinity: You can set it do be on by default, but that requires
1633
editing a file somewhere and I can't remember which nor what to
1636
<shapr> so, where do I buy stock in glyph? ;)
1638
* hmh looks at unmime.c in fetchmail and cries in agony
1639
<moshez> hmh: eh? what would a fucking MAIL DOWNLOADER be doing with mime?
1640
<hmh> moshez: being too fucking smart for its own good.
1641
<hmh> moshez: in a very dumb way, too.
1643
<radix> I can switch screens like none other!
1644
<radix> look! I just switched!
1648
<itamar> I no longer feel bored
1649
<itamar> compared to you, my life *scintillates*
1651
<glyph> yo ho ho and a bottle of internet
1653
<kosh#zope> sorry no games are worth what xp costs in terms of the freedoms removed
1655
<Nafai> Dang. sendmail ain't working all the sudden
1656
<exarkun> "all of a sudden"?
1657
<exarkun> Nafai: where have you been for the last decade?
1659
<dash> the primary function of the human brain is to make witty remarks on irc
1661
<radix> i've gotta move to one of those socialist countries and become a school-bum like princepsz
1662
<HappyFool> please. 'professional student', not 'school-bum'
1664
<radix> Like, imagine sitting around with your Marine buddies in your transport spaceship, going to Mars, getting rowdied up for the battle with the space aliens
1665
<radix> and then you get there and a thousand marines pour out of the ships and meet a horde of 10,000 imps
1666
<dash> radix: AND YOUR FRAMERATE GOES IN THE TOILET
1668
<exarkun> crack attack is life
1670
<flippo> I was reading a book about C++ templates today, then I glanced at a preview of the Python cookbook, and I thought my ears would explode from the change in pressure.
1672
<glyph> skreech: you think "Acquireable" is hard to spell? ;-)
1673
[ed: dict acquireable]
1675
<faassen> moshez: consistency's hobgoblin has a little mind!
1676
* dash dubs moshez "consistency's hobgoblin"
1678
<Overfiend> bwa ha ha ha ha
1679
<Overfiend> 03:28AM|<moshez> what I like about Manoj is his desire for
1680
simple and small solutions. like EMACS. or dvt.
1681
<Overfiend> 03:29AM|<Manoj> well, dvt was _supposed_ to be simple
1682
<Overfiend> 03:29AM|<Manoj> it only took 2 weeks to write
1683
<Overfiend> that's just a classic exchange
1684
<Overfiend> "Well, it's really quite simple if you conceive of it as a
1685
partially bounded n-dimensional manifold where n is the factorial
1686
of the number of ballot options"
1688
<TQuid> Twisted blows my mind so severely I want desperately to do
1689
something with it, yet I don't know what.
1690
<TQuid> You read about it and it's like "twisted will shortly assassinate
1691
Bill Gates, reformulate intellectual property law to make both BSD and GNU
1692
fanatics happy, and also make you a nice grilled-cheese sandwich."
1694
<hmh> moshez: I know ESR thinks he is a god of sex, and I know his signal
1695
handling code says otherwise...
1697
<II-V-I> subliminal message: python is good
1698
<Yosomono@efnet> subliminal retort: damn good
1699
<sun> subliminal antagonism: have you tried Ruby?
1701
<spiv> Imar: Saying "php is good because it is better than C" is like saying "maiming is good because it is better than severe maiming with shrapnel and burning oil".
1703
<radix> why do i hang out with you geeks ;)
1704
<dash> radix: the money, the power, the chicks
1707
<dash> the self-delusion
1709
<iLLf8d> hey all how can I get more info from python exceptions?
1710
<gt3> play good cop/bad cop
1712
<stranger> too much lag. going to pub.
1713
*** stranger is now known as stranger[pub]
1715
<radix> how was the [censor]?
1717
* radix pats his trusty Secure-o-matic.
1718
<glyph> radix: Terrific! [censored] was there, and so was [censored]. We built a [CENSORED] and used it to target
1719
<glyph> [INFORMATION QUOTA EXCEEDED]
1720
<radix> whoah there, buddy.
1721
<glyph> Erase is delete.
1722
<glyph> Kill is control-U (^U).
1723
<glyph> Interrupt is control-C (^C).
1725
<glyph> right. So, it went well.
1727
<schirkaan> and i thought distro wars where over a long time ago ;)
1728
<radix> schirkaan: are you new to IRC? :)
1730
<wiggy> for some reason the drugs aren't working today
1731
*** wiggy is ~wichert@cabal.xs4all.nl (Wichert Akkerman)
1733
You may think I'm uncooperative, but perhaps I'm just stupid.
1739
<skreech> If MS had bought Nintendo then Pikachu could be an MS Office Assistent.
1740
<shapr> paperclippachu, irritation attack!
1741
<shapr> paperclippachu, window close immunity!
1743
<aj> Tv: it's been around for ages, but never got put in the mainline cgi's
1744
(doogie saw some bright and shiny and got distracted...)
1746
<SteveA> I want a new builtin type for Python 2.3: zenbool
1747
<SteveA> It is like the new bool type, but has three possible values: True, False and Mu
1749
<aj> willy: so the question is, do i want to try my luck with another willy
1750
upload? do i feel lucky? well, do i, punk?
1752
<skreech> kill guard
1753
<skreech> drink potion
1756
<skreech> YOU MISSED GUARD HITS YOU MISSED GUARD HITS YOU MISSED GUARD HITS
1757
<skreech> You can't do that when you're dead.
1759
<rc> I'm making a game called Tycoon Tycoon. It simulates competing software companies making 'Tycoon' games.
1761
<faassen> "Hey I could speak in Slashdot messages only" An interesting
1766
*** Quits: dash:#twisted [washort@d136.narrowgate.net] (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
1767
<glyph> Wow... just _saying_ it makes him disappear
1769
<Overfiend> Eric Raymond got frustrated because his code wasn't getting
1770
merged, and it wasn't helping him out with the chicks who only
1771
give blow jobs to people whose code actually makes it into the
1774
<dash> a famous evil genius is a dead evil genius
1775
<dash> unless you've got a robot army or something
1776
<dash> and mine's on back order
1778
<itamar> you know what causes most evilness? the WEB
1780
<spiv> My life is a sequence of blissful sleeps interspersed by bits between sleeping (most people call those bits "days").
1781
<spiv> I live for sleeping.
1782
<spiv> It's like my natural, base state of being. The Aristotlean ideal of me is me sleeping.
1784
<itamar> [in XMLRPC] the header saying you *used* compression is as long as the banana packet
1786
[ 23:07:38 ] <glyph> DeepTape: Are you familiar with the Time Cube?
1787
[ 23:08:06 ] <DeepTape> glyph: is that a comic?
1788
[ 23:08:13 ] <dash> DeepTape: not.... exactly
1790
<cyli> Your minions are like the little elves, or trolls, who make shoes.
1791
Except, not really shoes: internet.
1793
<radix> there are stick men!!!
1795
<dash> uml has stick men
1796
<radix> I LOVE UML!!!!!!
1798
<dash> get thee down, be thou funky
1800
<thirmite> the novelty has worn off and i once again need heroin.
1802
<thirmite> some would argue radix on crack is a different person!!
1803
<exarkun> thirmite: some would argue that radix _not_ on crack is a different person
1804
<demoncrat> some might argue radix on crack is two different people
1806
<glyph> and the rexec'd code would run in a thread, and could use a Bastion to frob a PB reference synchronously
1807
<radix> here comes the crack, fellas
1809
<adiabatic> Every day you stay awake too long God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.
1811
<o2s@ircnet> its nott the size that matters but the code
1813
<Nafai> After I do some preliminary testing, I will soon be using Twisted towards commericial purposes
1815
* exarkun crosses his fingers and hopes for microlaser brain surgery hardware control.
1816
<exarkun> Twisted: The Framework That's Cutting Up Your Brain
1818
<sayke> "your mission, sayke, should you choose to accept it, is as follows: define r(n, b[n], x, u); where r() is reality's iteration definition rule function, n is
1819
the number of dimensions, b[n] is the boundry size (in each dimension) of the automata, x is the number of cell states, and u is the state of the universe, last
1821
<radix> sayke: use Twisted!
1823
* moshez kills dash and eats him
1824
<krz> You feel jumpy.
1826
<ameoba> now that everything is an object, I'm afraid you'll have to return those integers until we can verify your credit.
1828
<faassen> I created it. but I'm not *responsible* :)
1829
<faassen> it started lurching around by itself..
1831
<skreech> I dont even take a lot of whats on IRC to _brain_ much less to heart.
1833
<dash> javadoc is a cold and demanding master
1835
* itamar looks out the window at the view and cheers up
1836
<itamar> nothing like a peanut factory to remind you how good life is
1838
<itamar> there's a peanut factory next to the office, and that's what I see
1839
<itamar> great big peanut containers, towering above me
1841
<glyph> itamar: we should set up a really nasty looking demo with emacs and java and pb all talking to each other
1842
* glyph ponders code-generation-based support for PB in C++
1843
<glyph> OK, I am guessing that dull pain behind my eyes means I should stop thinking
1845
[re: emacs/PB, and the implementation thereof]
1846
<glyph> LEXICAL-LET is cool, I don't care how it works. I don't _want_ to know how it
1847
works. And now I have an appreciation for why I should never, ever change PB
1850
<aj> mstone: the raving lunatic camp rarely manages to
1851
implement stuff +effectively, so they follow the people who can... </aj's
1852
theory of life, the +universe and everything>
1856
<glyph> skreech: INTAR-web.
1859
<shapr> itamar: I've heard jdk1.4 is using a modified version of the mach kernel...
1861
<itamar> you're kidding, I hope
1862
<shapr> itamar: see, YOU'RE NOT SURE
1864
<ameoba> print "\n".join(["".join([(lambda n, f=lambda c : "\033[%dm#"%c: f(n=='0' and 30 or n=='1' and 33 or n=='2' and 35 or n=='3' and 31 or n=='4' and 34 or n=='5' and 32 or n=='6' and 37))(char) for char in line]) for line in ["%06d"%x for x in [1002,31502,314233,314251,131152,314214,411531,234562,152212]]])
1865
<ameoba> ex : it's a diagram of a crack-attack board +)
1866
<ameoba> 'cuz I can't dcc shit to shapr while he's behind that firewall +)
1868
<__del__> is there a special method a class can implement if it does its own garbage collection?
1869
--- __del__ is now known as gc
1870
* gc collects himslef
1871
<-- gc has kicked gc from #zope (gc)
1873
"Much like in the world of Frisbee, new game developers and game
1874
development companies should never make a statement with more predictive
1875
power than "Watch this!" "
1878
Brian Crowder: It's both relevant and terrifying at the same time.
1879
Glyph: That's the best kind of relevant.
1880
Matt Walker: Yes, but it's the worst kind of terrifying.
1882
<glyph> exarkun: The issue with globals is that they make resource management nearly impossible.
1883
<exarkun> glyph: why kind of resources?
1884
<glyph> exarkun: memory, disk, process time.
1885
<exarkun> glyph: I don't see how...
1886
<glyph> exarkun: Well, let's start with a hypothetical world with twenty billion obje[Out of memory error: server stopped]
1888
* moshez decides to call himself GNU/Moshez
1891
<shapr> perl? or lisp?
1893
<noa> "let sleeping dongs lie"
1895
<glyph> moshez: see? xml makes people happy.
1897
<resolve> we live in a world where some people get their jollies having sex
1898
with dead people - i don't think the notion of windows supporters
1899
is entirely inconceivable
1901
<ameoba> isn't a latvia part of the female genitalia?
1905
<Yosomono@efnet> premature optimization is like that other "premature" thing, messy and embarrassing
1907
<SteveA> I just had a very odd phone call
1908
<SteveA> from a researcher with the french TV station "TF1"
1909
<SteveA> asking about inflatable football referees
1911
<exarkun> english am dumb
1913
<sjj> i believe my monitor just blanked out
1914
<sjj> i hope i'm in the IRC window ;)
1915
<skreech> sjj: no use telling you 'yes'
1917
<dash> careful with that syntax, eugene
1919
<VladDrac> does it [Twisted - ed] make my penis grow?
1920
<shapr> if so, you better be careful how many people run Twisted all at once.
1921
<shapr> you could die of blood loss.
1923
<shapr> in reality, it just means I can throw down some Zope stuff and then play more crack attack rather than wrestling with J2EE for months.
1924
<shapr> ya know, no one on #java plays crack-attack
1925
<shapr> I think there's a not so hidden truth there.
1927
<EWSJames> we can be knights in shining armor if we want, but peasants who make up 99.9% percent of the people just see us as asses who wear shiny shit and talk funny
1929
* TuxedoKamen wonders why everyone always assumes he's on linux
1930
<Erwin> benefit of the doubt :)
1932
<allexpro> dash: put me in a tent and give it to moshez!
1934
<glyph> dash: we need to come up with a "basic rules of discourse" webpage
1935
<exarkun> glyph: why
1936
<glyph> exarkun: because if one more person makes a completely unfounded assertion in front of me I AM GOING TO EXPLODE THIS BACKPACK-SIZED NUCLEAR DEVICE
1937
<dash> glyph: I invented the hippo!@
1939
<dash> we've all got stupid ideas in our past
1940
<dash> thanks to the power of the internet, the shame associated with them need never dim!
1942
<sjj> itamar: if you use the word 'embedded' a lot, you sound smart.
1944
<liiwi> ah, coldness, the lovely coldness. And the ever-protecting darkness.
1946
From the /topic on #web:
1947
The First Rule of Web Development is, "We Don't Talk About Netscape 4.x"
1949
<spiv> I'm not entirely happy with it, but it works. Well, actually it doesn't. But until 5 minutes ago I thought it did :)
1950
[regarding the god-cursed FTP support in Twisted -ed]
1952
<dash> your RDF is massive and unstoppable. [to glyph -ed]
1954
<skreech> ooooh shit
1955
<skreech> I have moderator points!
1956
<skreech> RAAAAAMPAAAAAAAGE!!$*^
1958
<tenth> "And then you run this Z80 assembly on the resulting bytecode in the emulator of your choice to create your makefile."
1959
<tenth> "The inital register settings of the real or simulated Z80 are left as an exercise for the reader."
1960
[the nebula build process is just not fun. -ed]
1962
<dash> i find it interesting that your roadmap showed twisted improving most while you're in jail.
1963
[in reference to http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/2001-April/000037.html -ed]
1965
<allexpro> discovering twisted is probably the best thing that has happened in my life
1967
<sjj> dash: i'm fine with you dealing drugs, just keep them away from radix
1968
<dash> sjj: look, if i dont keep radix stocked, we get no releases.
1970
<radix> /msg exarkun [lilo] HI ALL GIMME MONEYS AND LOOK AT MY WEBBARSITE
1972
* radix harnesses the power of fudgepops for good, rather than evil
1974
<dreid> radix: any system that relies so heavily on a human concept like trust is inherently flawed ...
1975
<dreid> radix: i just use gpg to encrypt my porn
1977
<Bergenlund> how do I add twisted to autoexec.bat?
1979
* skreech squints really hard and tries to change his neuron patterns.
1981
<radix> MY TAPEWORM TELLS ME WHAT TO DO
1982
<radix> s/MY TAPEWORM/MOSHEZ/
1984
<dash> .rhosts auth is effectively "root one get one free"
1986
<dash> the os module is why python doesn't suck
1987
<glyph> dash: concrete is what makes skyscrapers not suck
1988
<glyph> dash: doesn't mean I want to go swimming in it
1990
<dash> is there some connection between German and disgusting modifications to C?
1991
[c.f. The Nebula Device, CLISP -ed]
1993
<dreid> earth# apt-get install good-will-towards-man
1994
<dreid> Reading Package Lists... Done
1995
<dreid> Building Dependency Tree... Done
1996
<dreid> Sorry but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
1997
<dreid> good-will-towards-man: Depends: peace-on-earth but it is not going to be installed
1998
<_moshez> dreid: file a bug against good-will-towards-men
1999
<_moshez> dreid: unless it is in contrib?
2000
<Nafai> non-free, perhaps
2003
<dreid> <xout>Hello World!</xout>
2005
<bruce> dreid: just fucking learn Common Lisp. :)
2007
<exarkun> let the unwashed masses write their C
2008
<exarkun> you will reap the benefits of their pain and toil
2010
<glyph> jemfinch: Are you really a captain of a spaceship from the mirror earth, on the other side of the sun?
2011
<jemfinch> I don't quite catch your meaning :)
2012
<glyph> jemfinch: Aah. Wink wink, know what you mean, say no more, say no more.
2014
<dash> "mwahahahahahahahahahaha"
2015
<Nafai> you are the christina aguilera of evil
2017
<glyph> > flirt with cyli
2018
<glyph> You flirt with cyli. [moshez is here, flirting with cyli]
2019
<glyph> > wink at cyli
2020
<glyph> You wink flirtatiously at cyli.
2021
<glyph> Glyph enters the room.
2022
<glyph> # glare moshez
2023
<glyph> Glyph glares at you!
2024
<glyph> # kill moshez with sword of infinite slaying
2025
<glyph> Glyph hits! Glyph hits! glyph hits! -more-
2027
<bruce> i wish i was only doing an imitation of a dumb user rather than really being one. :)
2029
<sjj> you can't be a satinist without god either
2030
<spiv> You can be a satanist without pants though. The world is an amazing place.
2032
* glyph finally places the order to get his carpets cleaned
2033
<shapr> is carpet cleaning thread safe?
2035
<tenth> "As a developer, I'm often discouraged by the amount of time and effort it takes to gouge out my own eyes in pain and frustration. Thanks to Gouge#.net, this distasteful task can be peformed quickly and easily by a trained professional*. Thank you, .net. Jesus, my eyes.
2036
(* Professionally designed GougeWizard(TM) with your choice of animated agent character)
2038
<resolve> i miss the days of programming computers in machine code. all this new-fangled source code is a waste of time.
2039
<itamar> machine code? hah
2040
<itamar> in my day we ran programs in our *head*
2041
<moshez> itamar: you had a *head*? pah
2043
<glyph> who could forget binky?
2044
<radix> glyph: well, anyone who naturally blocks out haunting things so they don't have nightmares
2045
<glyph> radix: Kenaan disapproves.
2047
<hornby> Slavery doesn't seem so bad.
2049
<getchomsky> "so, mister nooning, did you know you are associating with a man named glyph, a man authorities consider to be the most dangerous jewish man alive?"
2050
<getchomsky> "his mastery of open source programing makes him a threat to every man and woman alive on this planet. he must be stopped. Forget everything you think you know about him, and about this "twisted" of his"
2052
<exarkun> twisted.web has used 1 CPU second of time in the week I've had it running.
2054
<psy> How do I stop a factory?
2055
<Aco> psy: syndicate strike
2057
<exarkun> exceptions in C++ are a _huge_ mistake.
2058
<radix> s/exceptions in/
2060
<exarkun> glyph: do _you_ know about super()?
2061
<exarkun> glyph: As far as I can tell, it's a plot, one that would be likely perpetrated by an organisation not unlike the PSU (if the PSU existed, of course), to kidnap our firstborn and empty our jars of cookies.
2062
<Nafai> My cookies!?
2064
<glyph> You know, I don't think I've reached a point in my life where I said "I don't have enough emotional trauma", irc-related or otherwise.
2065
<dash> glyph: cool. let's go troll #c++.
2067
<sjj> i've heard there is a /quit command.
2068
<ameoba> sjj : "/quit" : absurd liberal myth
2071
<_moshez> itamar: so, the security people ask them what they do, and they say they are mathematicians
2072
<_moshez> itamar: and to prove it, they show papers with their name on it.
2073
<_moshez> itmaar: and then the security guys ask them to explain what the papers are about!
2074
<_moshez> itamar: apparently, one hasn't lived until he heard a mathematician explain to a security guy what equivariant cobordisms between symplectic manifolds are
2076
<ameoba> c++ is 700 times faster than Python
2077
<princepsd> ameoba: based on? ;))
2078
<ameoba> princeps: something somebody said on usenet +)
2080
<itamar> take money from elderly and weak with knife
2081
[itamar writes test cases for the Twisted Reality parser]
2083
<matiu> (I have to write help files) :(
2084
<ameoba> matiu : you could do it with twisted.
2085
<matiu> ameoba: So you're saying twisted has a "help file writer" somewhere deep down?
2086
<dash> matiu: yes and his name is bruce
2088
<glyph> dash: uh... what is the correct answer to the question "The short common lisp site name"?
2089
<dash> glyph: "it buuuuuuurns"
2090
<skreech> my eyes, the googles do nothing!
2092
<skreech> Why do I feel the sudden urge to buy a nice quality florescent desk lamp?
2094
<skreech> the woot, the woot, the woot is on fire.
2096
<skreech> itamar: heres your nickel back.
2098
<datazone> okay, tell me if i am crazy
2102
<bruce> and i like doing what i enjoy in my spare time. :)
2103
<bruce> which, although you all might think so, isn't harassing you all to do more work.
2104
<bruce> although you all do need to do more work.
2106
<snibril> JRuby? hmmm, only java ppl have to reimplement ever other lang to replace theirs ;)
2107
<radix> scheme people, too
2108
<cleverdra> Scheme people don't do that!
2109
<radix> how many object systems have YOU written today?
2110
<cleverdra> radix - today? 12, but one of them wasn't really.
2112
<radix> excuse me for visiting my DEAR OLD BABUSHKA on her EIGHTY-SIXTH BIRTHDAY when I should be WORKING ON TWISTED
2114
<radix> every time you make a terrible joke, a baby rabbit dies
2116
<itamar> "We put the 's' in 'drwxr-sr-x'!"
2118
<bruce> i've apparently gotten someone at work to clean up their act.
2119
<glyph> bruce: clean up their act how?
2120
<glyph> bruce: were they like a pedophile heroin addict or were they just checking in buggy code?
2121
<dash> glyph: like there's a difference
2123
<dash> It's moshez. Remember the briefing.
2125
<dash> glyph: so, i am trying to jump off the side of the NSF headquarters without losing my legs
2126
<fzZzy> reminds me of college
2128
<itamar> IN THE INTERNET AGE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CHAT WITH YOUR TOASTER
2130
<itamar> I liked the "2 years C# and .NET experience" job
2131
<gt3> i guess they're hiring dogs
2133
<fzZzy> how do you quit a twisted telnet session?
2134
<allexpro> ctrl + ]?
2135
<fzZzy> there's no cleaner way?
2136
<exarkun> calling close() on your connection's socket is pretty clean.
2137
<exarkun> I suppose you could call in a tactical nuclear strike on the remote host
2138
<fzZzy> considering the remote host is my computer right here, that would take care of everything for me
2140
<glyph> spiv: is bugzilla bad?
2141
<spiv> glyph: It's... large. And perl. Join the dots.
2143
<itamar> write a kqueue reactor
2144
<itamar> all the FreeBSD people will then go nuts
2145
<bruce> FeerBSD people are already nuts
2147
<radix> don't let's all go break a million tests, eh?
2149
<dash> adiabatic: citizen, you have committed an error
2151
<bruce> i'm feeling motivated
2152
<glyph> bruce: yaay!
2153
<glyph> bruce: what flavour of motivation?
2154
<bruce> beating you up
2156
<moshez> it's the holy trinity, dash, radix & glyph
2158
<bruce> what's #ypn ?
2159
<glyph> bruce: the fifth circle of hell
2160
<moshez> bruce: young programmers' network
2161
<moshez> glyph: potato potahto
2163
<bruce> allexpro is a view of the future of humanity as a group consciousness.
2167
<exarkun> ancient aramethaic warcry
2168
<exarkun> infamous for its ability to strike confusion into the hearts of enemies of aramathia
2170
<exarkun> radix: lisp freak
2171
<exarkun> radix: go suck on a car
2173
<ameoba> it's frightening to remember that twisted is an overgrown MUD
2175
<fariseo> i am completely lost, all i do understand is an OS with a database backend and a scripting language, but i am missing the whole xml/.net/j2ee/twisted...
2176
<glyph> I'm both honored and appalled that Twisted shows up in that list :)
2178
<exarkun> Pop up a Tkinter dialog saying "There's some information waiting for you" and do a beep every time the ethernet IRQ goes high
2180
<hornby> 1. Create laws that promote a fair, just society.
2184
<moshez> skreech: I claimed the typical anti anarchist attack goes something like:
2185
<moshez> "say someone cracks into your computer, downloads all your porn, burns it to a CD and throws it at you?"
2186
<moshez> anarcho-communist: nothing. the community would reprimand him.
2187
<moshez> anarcho-capitalist: my private security forces would shoot him before the CD left his fingers
2188
<moshez> attacker: "SEE! under anarchism you'd have people throwing porn CDs at people, and people either ignoring them and shooting them!"
2190
<rmt> Every python program needs to have direct access to a mouse over ssh!
2192
<strib> Sorry, I'm just in the middle of a paradigm warp right now.
2193
<dash> strib: welcome to twisted
2195
<exarkun> entirely not your fault, I'd say. the current behavior is somewhat broken
2196
<exarkun> luckily I documented it as being broken so it's not my fault either.
2198
<kriptik> wow twisted is neat
2199
<kriptik> *bleeds from the eyes*
2201
<allexpro> i said 'hello'
2202
<allexpro> and when i 'cat test.au > /dev/dsp'... it sounded like a tiger roar
2204
* moshez sings the radix song
2205
<moshez> "for he's a squishy good radix"
2206
<moshez> "for he's a squishy good radix"
2207
<moshez> "for he's a squishy good raaaaaaadix"
2208
<moshez> "and nobody can deny"
2210
<allexpro> and how do observer patterns work?
2211
<dash> the PSU watches your data and notifies the authorities when it becomes suspicious.
2213
<comajelly> hrm, I wanted to snipe this guy, but he got ran over.
2215
<fzZzy> I hate it when that happens
2218
<-- itamar has quit ("Client Exiting")
2220
<radix> heh, it's weird going to sleep at the same time as itamar
2222
<glyph> radix: I think that the twisted vs. asyncore table should begin with this quote, though: "Our conviction is like an arrow already in flight. Your life will only last until it reaches you."
2224
<Erwin> I recompiled XFree 4.2 with gcc 3.2-beta-from-cvs with -O42 and -march-pentium4-800Mhz and I am sure that the MOUSE CURSOR is moving 5 % FASTER!
2226
<bruce> I CONTROL YOUR WEBSITE!@$$
2228
--> IAmNotAPickle (slt5v@12-255-1-203.client.attbi.com) has joined #twisted
2230
<-- IAmNotAPickle (slt5v@12-255-1-203.client.attbi.com) has left #twisted
2232
<exarkun> you scared it
2235
<exarkun> I was at home depot the other day
2236
<exarkun> and they had a big rack of free AOL CDs
2237
<exarkun> So I took about 40 and stuck them under people's windshield wipers in the parking lot
2239
> Linux is complicated, becasue you compile.
2240
Corollary: Windows is simple because no compiler comes with the system...
2243
<sjj> dash: soon there'll be another level of college labelled "unlearn university crap"
2245
<wzZy> arg. these infinite recursion tracebacks take forever to render in the browser
2247
<exarkun> I'm just kidding. I'll spend on good computer books, but I failed to do any prepatory research in order to know whether any of the books there were worth anything.
2248
<exarkun> And I'd just spent $80 at the camping store.
2249
<adiabatic> wadja get?
2250
<exarkun> some kerosene and a cooler and a coupla chairs
2251
<dash> nothing like a good old fashioned book burning
2253
<radix> you have the pokey gene
2254
<zigg> ack, where'd I get it from :-P
2256
<zigg> triple ultra-recessive
2258
<radix> krz: we know that glyph owns all of our souls equally
2260
<moshez> glyph: teehee. good always loses
2262
<sjj> if you package twisted with python, it becomes py2ee
2264
<sjj> when does something denote enterprise? :P
2265
<deltab> when it's the most expensive version in its line
2266
<inapt> when it's terribly inefficient, but scales ;-)
2267
<deltab> alternatively: database
2269
<glyph> The world made more sense when I thought software was a physical thing you sold in stores, and I wrote code in C++; making software was a lot more like mixing cement, then, not poetry or revolution.
2271
<skreech> I'm sorry. I forgot that in #twisted, all suggestions are taken seriously.
2273
<sjj> what do you do for your clients? :)
2274
<sjj> "distributed enterprise networking technology solutions" ?
2275
<bruce> we put DENTS in your budget.
2277
<Jerub> All these things that would be next to impossible with php, that I can think to do in twisted.web
2279
<timmy> so it's basically a lot of libs for doing stuff?
2280
[timmy becomes enlightened to the Twisted Way -ed]
2282
<Joey> I sense disturbance in the security buildd structure.
2284
<wzZzy> AQUAMAN VS THE GERMANS IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER MADE
2286
<eevench> is LISP good
2287
<exarkun> The short answer is yes and no.
2288
<exarkun> You don't want the long answer.
2290
<radix> who has the power to wield the almighty +t?
2292
<exarkun> radix: I don't think you can handle the +t
2294
<willy> you can tune a fs but you can't call a string
2296
<Jerub> What l33t skilzz do I have to pick up to get a python job? Zope? Twisted?
2297
<dash> Jerub: the power to cloud the minds of men
2298
<Jerub> dash: I'm afraid I only have a Wand of Clouding vs. Women
2299
<glyph> Jerub: oh, that's easy
2300
<glyph> use the wand on a woman
2301
<glyph> women have the clouding-men's-minds intrinsic
2302
<glyph> so you can either make her your pet and then wander around
2303
near some businessmen for a while
2304
<glyph> or eat her corpse and get the intrinsic yourself
2305
<glyph> no wait, that's not how it works...
2306
<dash> glyph: wrong game
2307
* dash twitches violently as he thinks of "nethack, enterprise edition"
2309
<spiv> AaronSw: You should never, ever be creating a transport... Twisted is supposed to do that for you.
2310
<AaronSw> I should never create the tcp.Client stuff or I shouldn't manually set them as the transport?
2311
<spiv> AaronSw: Use reactor.clientTCP (or better yet, reactor.connectTCP in CVS).
2312
<spiv> Don't create tcp.Client directly either.
2313
<spiv> http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/TwistedDocs/Twisted-0.19.0/twisted/internet/interfaces_IReactorTCP.py.html
2314
<spiv> AaronSw: But of course, that API is deprecated in 0.99 (but creating a tcp.Client directly is even more deprecated :P)
2315
<AaronSw> Are you guys abstraction astronauts or something? ;-)
2317
<DeepTape> Oh no, taxes! They are trying to steal your arctic circle income
2319
<pkomarek> dash: the worst part about perl is that it is intuitive, right up until you need something to work correctly.
2321
<dash> finally! an essential representation of the confusion.
2322
[ed: referring to a diagram of twisted.cred]
2324
<Acapnotic> Good afternoon, Agent.
2325
<glyph> Acapnotic: "agent"? You've been immersing yourself in the One True Game, I take it.
2326
<Acapnotic> What's going on out there is no game. Those guys are using real bullets.
2327
<Acapnotic> That last mission? I got sloppy at the end of it. Real sloppy. Barely had a leg to stand on when I got on that chopper.
2331
<Jerub> or, alteratively,
2334
<moshez> doogie: Clint wants you to lap-dance.
2335
<doogie> I charge more than the normal $20
2336
<Clint> with or without the hat?
2337
<doogie> that'd be the only thing I'd wear
2339
[About a tm.com redesign]
2340
<evol> But what kinda design is the goal here
2342
<moshez> evol: a good one.
2343
<dash> evol: "non sucky"
2345
<sjj> glyph: ahh too bad, if you have a windows box it lets you use windows media player...
2346
<dash> sjj: he's a terrorist PPC user not a patriotic x86 user
2348
<JerubBaal> why can religious fanatics and nigerians not figure out capslock?
2349
<glyph> JerubBaal: IF IS SPEAK LIKE A TELEGRAM YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME STOP IF I USE NORMAL ENGLISH YOU MAY FIND IT BLAND AND NOT READ IT ALL STOP
2350
<JerubBaal> Sorry, I lost interest after you shouted 'telegram'
2352
<dash> twisted doesn't currently have any trouble with 2.2, right?
2355
* dash prepares to make trouble
2357
<dash> looks like we have people who just totally fall off our radar because they're totally happy with twisted and dont _need_ to say anything =)
2359
<spiv> glyph: You have the deepest insight into XML of anyone I know ;)
2361
<mesozoic> I tried adding one in coil, and got more errors. I'm not sure if I'm going about it properly. Is there any other way to configure a vhost?
2362
<ameoba> call the vhost-bustters
2364
<Jerub> I got in trouble for drawing a smiley face on a gantt chart.
2366
* moshez does the evil lowering squishation resistance level dance.
2368
<glyph> CDATA is not an integration strategy.
2370
<nessus> The PSU? Is that that thing that I used to send $50 a year to?
2372
<radix> "Don't expect romantic attachments to be strictly logical or rational!" [from a fortune cookie -ed]
2373
<deltab> do expect them to be in DOC format
2374
<deltab> "May all your romantic attachments be in an unreadable file format"
2376
<sjj> skreech: you go to all classes?
2378
<sjj> skreech: why? :)
2379
<sjj> skreech: uni was made to be skipped
2380
<sjj> man, americans must be dedicated students.
2382
* moshez doubts they realize Linux has *WAY* more brand-awareness than SCO, and possibly equal to "UNIX"
2383
<dash> where SCO is recognised
2384
<dash> it is recognised as suffering
2386
--- ivan is now known as grub
2387
<grub> please donate to this IRC server I need lots of money i don't know how i can stay online.
2388
--- grub is now known as ivan
2390
<glyph> I've started to think that having a lot of stable, robust stuff and a
2391
lot of half-finished proof-of-concept stuff in one project is a good
2393
<glyph> like "You know we can do good work, but we got bored with that bit; if
2394
you want us to finish it, pay"
2395
<dash> glyph: good, because that's what we have
2397
<StevenK> steven@broken:~$ ssh squished
2398
<StevenK> steven@squished's password:
2399
<StevenK> Linux squished 2.4.18-686 #1 Sun Apr 14 11:32:47 EST 2002 i686
2401
<bruce> how are the jails in israel?
2402
<itamar> well, the one I was in was pretty nice
2404
<dash> glyph: how many PSU agents did you have to kill to get that working?
2405
<glyph> dash: 3, and they were all waiting just inside the door. Amateurs.
2407
<glyph> and it's considered a professional courtesy, when you are *invited*
2408
into a bank, not to steal all their moneys and shoot the managers full
2409
of assault rifle bullets
2411
<moshez> itamar: you're AT WORK?
2412
<itamar> moshez: I am not an employee
2414
<tenth> Doing stuff in MySQL is like getting dates at [name elided to
2415
protect the guilty -ed] College... "How ugly do you want it?"
2417
<tenth> I think we need a god verb "0wnz0r" on the
2418
reality-pencil-type-thing. I'm not sure exactly what it would do, but I
2419
think it may be necessary.
2421
<dash> Saying that complexity isn't real because it "was invented somewhere else" is the most useless kind of wishful thinking
2423
<xcabbage> mind.sf.net crashed my browser
2424
<dash> signs of intelligent life!
2426
<glyph> The only thing more absurd than the technology of XML is the politics surrounding it.
2428
<glyph> While it is *possible* that I'm smarter than you think I am, it is certain that I'm more stubborn.
2430
<z3p> glyph: what group of programmers are you picking on tonight?
2431
<glyph> z3p: PyXML again
2432
<z3p> sounds like a blast :)
2433
<glyph> z3p: ugh. Actually I have a pretty high opinion of some of those people so it bugs me to have to be flaming :)
2434
<dash> glyph: bah, just lower your opinion of them
2435
<dash> no need to consider their past character, if they're wrong, they're scum@#!
2438
<glyph> _moshez: debian really needs to make start-stop-daemon do something
2439
cute, like put icons across the top of the fbdev
2441
<glyph> we need PB for C#
2442
* moshez squishes glyph
2443
<moshez> glyph: squishy insane person
2445
<dash> moshez: we dont have the right kind of soil to not grow wheat in
2447
<exarkun> I try to limit myself to one major screw up a week
2449
<tenth> in OSX, they deprecate things with hammers and nailguns
2451
<Lan_Rover> it is my official decree that it is easier to config and run twisted as a web server than to install apache2 and mod_python
2453
<liiwi> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/09/12/160255.shtml?tid=99
2454
[the topic is "squishy Digital Rights Management" -ed]
2455
* dash looks at slashdot
2456
* dash looks at moshez
2457
<dash> moshez: just _what_ have you been up to lately????
2459
<itamar> thank god I'm not religious
2461
<dash> Hi. Allow me to express my opinion of Word now that i've gotten to know it a little better.
2462
<dash> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa.
2464
<glyph> Stravad: whereas eval is like slitting your own throat before going
2465
out for a walk so as to make the mugger's job easier
2467
<glyph> radix: keep your eyes on the bot! we move fast.
2469
<infinity> moshez : I won't denounce PHP... It still has its uses.. <shrug>...
2470
I denounced most PHP *users* about a week after adopting it, though.
2471
<infinity> That language attracts more idiots...
2472
[Ed: infinity is the Debian PHP maintainer]
2474
<Aco> radix: ever heard for this russian group tato/taty? pop
2476
<Aco> radix: well, girls were like 16 when they started. they sing in
2477
ther white underpants, and they wet them with water.. so you can see
2478
under. very interesting. want some pictures? :)
2479
<dash> Aco: please do not corrupt our release manager
2480
<dash> Aco: at least not until after 1.0
2482
<radix> hehe yeah the whore house was awesome :D
2483
<radix> if you go in with a high-level the chicks pass out after you're done
2486
<Tv> What kind of dope is that? md5 digests _are_ 16 bytes.
2487
<warner> don't trust the hash, man
2489
<bruce> hmmm. i didn't get my 11pm cron output email.
2490
* bruce forgets which cronjob that is though.
2491
<skreech> bruce: nuclear war has erupted. haven't you heard?
2492
<bruce> (or what machine it runs on)
2493
<bruce> (or what user it runs as on what machine)
2494
<glyph> skreech: in 2002, war was beginning
2495
* skreech makes a "boooosshhh" sound.
2496
<skreech> glyph: what happen?
2497
<glyph> skreech: somebody set up bruce the cron, apparently
2498
<skreech> glyph: main vi turn on
2502
<itamar> yes, but that doesn't make sense, how can you be proud of a civil war?
2503
<exarkuN> itamar: we won
2504
<exarkuN> itamar: what's not to be proud of?
2506
<jml> is there a doc on twisted's version numbering conventions?
2507
<dash> jml: glyph rolls dice
2509
<itamar> dash is *already* pre-strectched
2510
<itamar> he's like 6 feet
2512
<itamar> he's actualy 1.80 meters
2514
<itamar> it's not that he's a giant insect
2516
<_moshez> itamar: I'm agaisnt the state too :)
2517
<shapr> _moshez: are you purely functional?
2519
<jml> dash: there's an otherwise normal guy at work who uses tcl as his scripting language of choice
2521
<sjj> let me tell you something. I worked at BK for 1 year, and the veggie burgers have more meat than the whoppers, but nobody complained!
2523
<sjj> moshez: don't kid yourself, if a cow got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you cared about.
2525
<dash> zb0: ok, let me describe what you sound like
2526
<dash> zb0: "Hi. I want to drive a spike through my foot into the floor. Can someone help me with that? I know i dont need to, but there are other things i want to drive spikes into."
2528
<itamar> it's "moshez vs. the CS profs of doom"
2529
<dash> itamar: i think in a war with the CS profs of doom, i'd be on moshez's
2531
<itamar> yes, but your goals are different
2532
<itamar> inevitably your pact would weaken
2533
<dash> itamar: well, we'd fight a duel if we both survived the war.
2535
<dash> |mmy: cgi is not an enterprise solution.
2537
<_moshez> cyli: oh, yes. what did you think of my flame to val?
2538
<cyli> moshez: i didn't get to read all of it. glyph kept interrupting me
2539
with questions of what i thought of it. and then i had dinner.
2541
<glyph> phed: the abbreviation FAQ does not have the word "smart" in it
2543
<cvs> Commit from glyph (changed 1) in Twisted/twisted/web: "A more expository docstring. Sometimes I'm distracted easily and I might stop in the middle of" static.py
2545
<anonymous> i keep forgetting how much *fun* python is without zope
2547
<glyph> radix: so ... it doesn't already do what you want?
2548
<radix> glyph: Well, now that I understand that what I wanted is impossible, yes. :-)
2549
<radix> I mean, yes, it does everything that I want, now. ;-)
2550
-vinge.openprojects.net- glyph changed topic: Learn from radix: if Twisted doesn't do what you want, modify your desires.
2552
<CainKnight> Right now, I could care less about the best way to do this, or the
2553
intricacies involved. What I care about is making a function get
2555
<CainKnight> If that involves ritual sacrifice to dark gods, fine.
2556
<CainKnight> I don't care why the dark gods want chicken blood.
2557
<CainKnight> All I need to know right now is will they accept it and make the
2558
volcano not wipe out my city.
2559
<CainKnight> Once the volcano is placated, then i can go back and figure out
2560
that it wasn't the blood, it was the heat mixed with the iron in a
2561
rich oxygen environment, and adjust the ritual properly in the
2564
<Yosomono@efnet> I'm so open source that I sequenced my genome and released ISOs
2566
<glyph> one of the nice things about being american and effectively
2568
[The next line isn't really important, is it? --ed]
2570
<glyph> radix: there is NO bit of canada that's that close to you
2572
<radix> ok, *6* hours ;-)
2573
<glyph> radix: yeah, if your car can _fly_
2575
<Erwin> I will code your website and polish your shoes! With my toung!
2576
<moshez> Erwin: how do you code a website with your tongue?
2577
<dash> moshez: two words
2578
<dash> "salivaproof keyboard"
2580
<z3p> WHY DO YOU MOCK ME UNIX
2582
<radix> what does wifi have to do with feng shui? :P
2583
<dash> radix: optimal flows of internet through your house
2585
* moshez doesn't see how you can not have a computer in the bedroom
2586
<moshez> I mean, what if you wake up at 4am and need to talk to someone
2587
<dash> moshez: walk into the other room?
2588
<moshez> dash: I'd need to get dressed for that
2589
<dash> moshez: bathrobe
2590
<moshez> dash: I'm sane
2591
<moshez> dash: my bathrobe is in the bathroom
2593
<itamar> dash: how'd you learn?
2594
<dash> itamar: lessons
2596
<radix> bathrobe is easier than boxers ;-)
2597
<moshez> radix: how so?
2598
<radix> moshez: eh, you have to deal with legs
2599
<radix> a swoosh around the shoulders is easier, I think
2600
<moshez> radix: it takes more presence of mind to tie the belt-thingy
2601
<jml> moshez: compared to buttons on boxers? I think not
2602
<moshez> buttons???????
2603
<moshez> jml: who makes your boxers? Chinese Torture 'R' Us?
2605
<moshez> I'm always nice.
2607
<moshez> jml: you're like all men, you're afraid of committing
2608
<jml> moshez: it's a deep seated fear of conflict
2610
<glyph> bruce_: GPL can't force you to write code under non-MIT/BSD licenses
2611
<exarkun> GPL+mindflayer can though
2613
<zen-@ircnet> which the ratio simplicity/expressivitiy of python?
2614
<moshez> 2.49866397309784
2615
<moshez> approximately
2617
<moshez> tigrux: well, it's for Python2.2
2618
<moshez> I haven't had time to modify my calculations for the CVS version
2620
<spiv> mjs: You've probably noticed by now that dash is only here to make occasional remarks about Twisted & World Domination... ;)
2621
<mjs> spiv: yeah I starting to notice... but I am sure it will become more fervent when we have a Lisp twisted implementation. =)
2622
<dash> mjs: when that happens, i will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
2624
<teratorn> as a general rule, you should never associate popularity with correctness
2626
<dopey> fd0: what in particular about the environment is significant ?
2627
<fd0> dopey: some env-variables
2629
<blanu> glyph: Itamar says I need a shell account on pyramid. I forgot why.
2630
<glyph> blanu: You do! For cabal research.
2631
<glyph> I MEAN CVS ACCESS NOT cabal research there are no blood sacrifices
2632
<blanu> Yes, yes exactly.
2633
* Acapnotic puts magnetic blood boy back in the closet.
2635
<PenguinOfDoom> Bah.
2636
<PenguinOfDoom> People still say "Linux Redhat 8"?
2637
<PenguinOfDoom> It's "Linux version 8", damnit.
2639
* itamar wonders if the phrase "evil spawned in dark aeons beyond the ken of man" should go in a price proposal for a project
2641
<moshez> if it's a proposal to Satan, yes.
2642
<moshez> also, how much would it cost?
2643
<moshez> is it, like, a big chunk of the price?
2644
<moshez> if so, possibly a more expansive description is in order.
2645
<moshez> like, where exactly the evil was spawned.
2647
<moshez> "Hi, we use bit arithmetic on doubles, becuase we're really
2648
stupid. We deserve what we get for programming Perl. Do you
2649
have a position for us FLIPPING BURGERS?"
2651
<radix> where the heck did caps-day come from, anyway?
2652
<JDAHLIN> It's something we often celebrate here in South America
2653
<JDAHLIN> Very traditional.
2656
<radix> I'm getting drinker's-elbows
2658
* moshez sees the orbital lasers adjusting
2659
* ameoba puts on a _REALLY_ shiny tinfoil hat
2660
<moshez> ameoba: I'm afraid that's another myth
2661
<moshez> the tinfoil hats actually help us aim the lasers
2662
<dash> ameoba: they suppressed the laser-dispelling tinfoil in 1953
2664
"Perl is like a normal chainsaw, but it's inflammable."
2665
-- Prior-Art-O-Matic (http://thesurrealist.co.uk/priorart.cgi?ref=Perl)
2667
<ameoba> READ THE FAQ@!#@ THAT"S NOT A MINIMAL EXAMPLERING@#
2669
<rc> Yosomono: I was only kidding when I said, "Fuck you."
2670
<Yosomono> rc: Dude. Water. Bridge. Beneathage.
2672
<Pahan> demoscene? Isn't that some Greek philosopher?
2674
<glyph> I'm at MIT. I'm walking down the infinite corridor, and towards the
2675
end they have a small lab, which looks strangely like the MJ12 Level 2 labs
2676
in DX. In the lab are a bunch of display screens.
2677
<glyph> The lab has a placard next to it that says "nanotechnology center"
2678
<glyph> Soon as I look up at the monitor, it switches to a slide that says
2680
<glyph> I'm not kidding.
2681
<glyph> they are engineering the whitespace eating nanovirus _right here_
2683
<exarkun> this server rebooted, now freshcvs is raising exceptions, the webserver doesn't run, and mailman's permission
2684
wrapper refuses to acknowledge setuid bits
2685
<exarkun> It's enough to make a guy buy a rifle and start shooting people.
2686
<glyph> exarkun: what kind of rifle
2688
<jml> anyway, wasn't bruce_ writing a C implementation of spread?
2689
* jml decides to write a C++ one just to piss dash off
2690
<dash> jml: that wouldn't piss me off
2691
<dash> jml: that's like trying to annoy an eye surgeon by stabbing yourself in
2692
the face with a pencil
2694
<exarkun> ThreeSeas: Thanks for playing. BTW, I whipped up an autocoder last night, but it went on strike.. said it wanted a better contract.
2696
<pht> hi, does python do threads?
2697
<MoonFallen> we need a dash hand-puppet to answer this question when he's not around
2699
<ameoba> WHO WAS GENERAL TSO AND WHY ARE WE EATING HIS CHICKEN?
2700
<dash> ameoba: because it is SPICY.
2702
<jml> C++ templates, a bad idea ruined by bad implementation.
2704
<glyph> IT IS BECAUSE I AM A GENIUS!!
2706
<mindlace> so g-d parses xhtml. Mysterious ways, I guess.
2707
<radix> no, microdom parsers xhtml
2708
<radix> g-d munges it :)
2710
<Mifune> that is one benefit of being "god" on this project... I am my own clusterfuck
2712
[this conversation took place at 7:16 AM, and both participants knew they had
2713
clearly been awake for the previous 12 hours or so... -ed]
2714
<glyph> So, your schedule in space again too?
2716
<dash> my _brain_ is in space
2718
<radix> mozilla runs on macosx, right?
2720
<glyph> radix: but it's slooooooowwwwww
2721
<fzZzy> It's not too bad on my 933 with 1.25 gb of ram
2723
<xyld> Java is like being naked, covered in vaseline and beaten with sticks -- I respect that some people like that kind of thing, but I'll pass :)
2725
<jml> quoth the _moshez: Here is .lore
2727
<fzZzy> pyn: suck it
2728
<pyn> An error occurred:
2731
<blanu> When I mentioned Twisted, Guido said it had been suffering from the
2732
problem where you look at it and you can't tell what it is, but that he
2733
thinks that has gotten much better lately. I then told him much praise for
2734
the responsiveness and hardcore attitude of the Twisted developers.
2737
* radix goes to wash dishes
2739
<ry> twisted_ (twisted@krs-dhcp351.studby.uio.no) joined on efnet
2740
<Erwin> It's become SENTIENT!
2742
[discussing Woven... -ed]
2743
<glyph> dmerrill: We're still working out the best way to approach this philosophpically ;)
2744
<spiv> "philoso*php*ically"?
2745
<glyph> spiv: that was the weirdest freudian slip of my life
2747
<datazone> play that funky music dash boy
2748
* dash is playing that funky music right.
2750
<ameoba> radix: I think "+q? :)" is an ETC macro...
2751
<ameoba> radix: it's used alot in quantum computing.
2752
<ameoba> "try all values, destroy universe if false"
2753
<ameoba> useful for that O(1) execution speed, unfortunately, it could be REALLY BAD if your evaluation function's buggy
2755
<cluster> hehe I haven't had a decent night of sleep since I discovered twisted :)
2757
<z3p> itamar: you can /never/ have too many monkeys
2759
<moshez> jafo: going to give a talk today.
2760
<moshez> jafo: "Smooth Structure of Orbifolds"
2761
<dash> moshez: if i ever write an RPG, i'm going to make one of the monsters be an orbifold
2762
<dash> "The orbifold hits! The orbifold hits! You die..."
2764
<radix> A Sparrow claws your face right off!
2765
<radix> You are dead! Sorry...
2766
<radix> [Info] Radix has been slain by A Sparrow!!
2767
<radix> The gods have mercy on your inexperienced soul.
2768
<radix> <1hp 103m 86mv>
2772
<red_one> sayke: what would happen if everyone voted consciencously?
2773
<sayke> red_one: what would happen if everyone beat their swords into plowshares?
2774
<dash> sayke: PLOWSHARE FIGHT
2776
* vegai wears his reading bra.
2777
<vegai> umm, I mean glasses
2779
(searching for "god" on Google returns http://phpnuke.org)
2780
<itamar> something is screwed up with google...
2781
<LotR> itamar: no, that's god's little joke on google
2783
<datazone> but the real question is: "do you get to beat victims to death with a steal dildo while wearing a bugs bunny outfit?"
2785
<exarkun> I'm gonna preempt them by mailing the list and asking what people think is wrong with it
2786
<Acapnotic> exarkun: will you make that a multiple choice question?
2787
<exarkun> Acapnotic: YES! A) IT IS TOO GOOD B) IT IS TOO GOOD C) EXARKUN IS TOO SEXY, I WANT TO HAVE HIS CHILDREN D) ALL OF THE ABOVE
2788
<Acapnotic> > Dear exarkum, i would like very much to use ur smtp client programme but you are too sexy and i want to have many children by you. only problem is that i am currently a man and it will take time to change for you.
2789
<Acapnotic> > I will understand if you do not wait for me, but i will look forward to the times we are together
2791
<moshez> spiv: what's the date there?
2792
<spiv> moshez: Oct 2.
2793
<spiv> Admittedly we're in daylight savings, but we're also not right on the international date line :)
2794
<moshez> maybe Nov 2...
2795
<spiv> Er, Nov 2, yeah :)
2796
* spiv tries to act innocent, like he doesn't have a time machine
2798
<radix> glyph needs more friends that can break into his house
2800
<moshez> itamar: when they have an action figure of me, it will come with a squishing action
2802
<itamar> so it's, kinda, "heh-inducing episodes occured in conjunction with
2805
<jml> dash: well, I might have done something really stupid. Like embed perl code into the example by accident.
2806
<dash> jml: well, there's stupidity, and willful stupidity
2807
<jml> dash: and then there's university
2809
<sjj> hah, they've introduced Vanilla Coke down there as well, eh? ;)
2810
<jml> sjj: yeah, we're really up to do. Soon, a real "burger chain"
2811
from the United States is gonna come here. They call themselves,
2812
Mac-something-or-other. :)
2814
<glyph> that's AWESOME
2815
<itamar> wasn't it your idea?
2816
<glyph> itamar: If it was, I'm a genius
2818
<Kengur> why cant python b compiled to native bitecode?
2819
<Erwin> Python IS compiled to bitecode on the Transmeta Muffin
2820
<inapt> what's native bitecode?
2821
<inapt> a sekrit language of snakes?
2824
<arma> for the shmuck, or the other shmuck?
2826
<jml> dash: given the number of places you can stick const, "where the sun don't shine" is probably the best
2827
-- jml explains good C++ style
2830
<itamar> before he reproduces
2831
<anonymous> itamar: slightly more tact is called for
2832
<exarkun> Tact won't solve any problems an aluminum baseball bat won't solve faster.
2833
<anonymous> can't get to him - no budget money for ticket
2834
<anonymous> any excess budget money will go toward lucky professor #0 getting whacked.
2835
<anonymous> I got in trouble, because the first draft of the budget had the official "slop" line item marked as "Dr XXXXXXX hitman fund."
2836
<anonymous> noone disagreed, mind you - they just didn't want it officially in the budget.
2838
<Cheez> OMG, the economy is so bad that people are willing to work in tennessee??!?
2840
<jafo> I finally got through the Internet, but the end guy is REALLY hard.
2842
<bram> http://advogato.org/person/Bram/diary.html?start=40
2843
<raph> if i were to click that link, it would: pop up a progress window; print cryptic messages about launching konq to stdout; make the kirc window small and unresponsive; and crash the gnome panel
2845
<moshez> glyph: do you think programming requires thinking?
2846
<glyph> moshez: No! That is why we can automate it with robot monkeys, and we programmers must fight to earn our meager living while we are being crowded out by machines.
2848
<saph> i'd rather have a non-robot monkey, for they are squishier and have hair
2850
<drue> fermats last theorem is very simple, it's the proof that's a bugbear
2851
<raph> actually, i have a simple proof, but it's too small for me to type into irc
2853
<exarkun> INEFFICIENT CAPITALIST YOUR OPULENT TOILET WILL BE YOUR UNDOING
2855
<dash> it's quicker to ask python than us :)
2856
<MoonFallen> dash speaks words of wisdom
2857
<MoonFallen> it is quicker
2858
<MoonFallen> it's not always useful, though
2859
<MoonFallen> for example, last week i wanted to know a good brand of barbecue sauce. i tried asking python
2860
<MoonFallen> it quickly gave me my answer: SyntaxError
2861
<dash> MoonFallen: we dont buy any other brand
2862
<MoonFallen> i knew i should have looked for it at Whole Foods instead
2864
<jml> <saph> it is easy to get a date
2865
<jml> <jml> saph: that's easy for you to say
2866
<jml> <saph> you just have to be brave and have little or no standards
2867
* jml fucks his clipboard
2869
<Tenshihan> if I had a binary number 1001001 and I wanted to count the
2870
number of 1's in it... and the only math function I have is add, should
2871
I shoot my professor?
2873
<MoonFallen> or maybe just pay his army to surrender. it would cost less than
2874
shipping 250,000 troops over there, i'll bet you.
2875
<MoonFallen> the oil companies would probably chip in too
2876
<MoonFallen> we could get everyone involved. like sponsoring a starving child
2877
in africa. except you're sponsoring an iraqi to surrender
2878
<MoonFallen> i wonder if we could get them to write their sponsors letters.
2879
"thank you for not blowing me up. thanks to your generous donation of 1 million
2880
dollars, instead of being dead, i am now an oil magnate in my native country."
2882
<datazone> you're a towel
2883
<exarkun> a towel of IMMENSE POWER, yes.
2886
<moshez> I don't see how people didn't think of this before
2887
<moshez> if you're in competition with some windows user, just report him to the bsa
2889
<jml> damn you all. damn you and your witty repartee and your elegant bloody framework. I'm going to sleep.
2891
<jml> here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they make me do XML
2893
* glyph thinks x++ should have been named "<xml type="programming">
2894
<increment /> <increment> </xml>"
2896
<raph> i was going to publish a spec for bitmap images much along similar lines as BLOAT
2897
<raph> ie, <pixel><color><component name="red" value="34"/> ...
2898
<raph> now here is the evil thought
2899
<raph> do up an XLST stylesheet to render it as a huge html table with cell backgrounds for each pixel
2900
<raph> so you can view it in mozilla
2902
<aum> dash: do we have a 'non-profanity' chan policy here?
2903
<dash> aum: we have a "not acting lame" policy
2905
* spiv wishes he never has to see another meta-argument
2906
<moshez> spiv: meta-arguments are fun!
2907
<spiv> moshez: The first time perhaps. They're always the same, though. It gets tiresome.
2908
<glyph> spiv: you're having a meta-meta argument now
2909
<spiv> glyph: My life is pain :)
2910
<moshez> glyph: I was afraid of having to point this out to spiv myself
2911
<dash> moshez: it wasn't an argument 'til you spoke up :)
2912
<moshez> dash: but he *answered*
2914
<glyph> METAMETAMETA ARGUMENT
2915
<jml> glyph: not it's not
2916
--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to glyph
2917
<-- glyph has kicked jml from #twisted (IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT IF I HAVE A GUN)
2918
<exarkun> +1 (Insightful)
2920
<dash> bruce: oh. intellectual dishonesty doesn't bother me when it comes to getting k5 to post our propaganda.
2921
<moshez> dash: intellectual dishonesty doesn't bother me when it comes to brainwashing and taking over the world
2922
<dash> moshez: That's what I said.
2924
<MoonFallen> i'm looking at a perl program called tedia2sql
2925
<MoonFallen> the author seems pretty competent, judging by the quality of the program, but it takes him almost 300 lines what t.p.usage would allow me to do in 50
2926
<MoonFallen> and i'm not that good
2927
<glyph> MoonFallen: yes, but I'm *amazing*, and I wrote t.p.usage ;-D
2928
<MoonFallen> well shit, no wonder
2929
<glyph> and it's been hacked on by people smarter than me, since then.
2930
<MoonFallen> incidentally, who do you consider smarter than you? i need to hire those people or keep away from them
2932
<MoonFallen> lol. it's nice when someone starts out a post like this: " Basically, the entire structure of your argument centers around the assumption that it's bad to have bugs in your program."
2933
<MoonFallen> then i know i can skip the rest of the post
2935
<bram> I just got a call from a mechanical voice which said 'I'm sorry, I dialed your number in error'
2937
Grocible says, "this programming job on another site demands "courage, commitment and loyalty""
2938
Grocible says, "Courage commitment and fucking loyalty?!"
2939
Grocible asks, "is this an ad for a knight's assistant circa 1450?"
2940
Grocible asks, "what were they called? Pages?"
2941
Nate says, "So that's what Active Server Pages are."
2943
<liiwi> _pattern = re.compile('^(?P<client>[^ ]+) (?P<ident>[^ ]+) (?P<authuser>[^\[\n]+) \[(?P<mday>[0-9]+)\/(?P<mon_name>\w+)\/(?P<ye\
2944
<liiwi> ar>[0-9]+):(?P<hour>[0-9]+):(?P<min>[0-9]+):(?P<sec>[0-9]+) (?P<timediff>[^ ]+)\] "(?P<method>(GET|HEAD|PUT|POST|TRACE|DELETE|O\
2945
<liiwi> PTIONS|-))( (?P<url>.*) (?P<proto>[^ ].*))" (?P<status>.*) (?P<bytes>.*) "(?P<refer>.*)" "(?P<agent>[^"]+)"(($)|( (?P<stime>[^ \
2946
<liiwi> ]+) (?P<vhost>[^ ]+).*$))')
2947
<radix> BURN IN HELL
2949
<radix> somebody dressed in a chicken suit came out during the concert and attacked them
2950
<radix> and they beat the crap out of it
2952
<rc> I don't find transclusive folding to be that useful a programming
2954
<faassen> rc: well, it's an acquired taste.
2956
<Stravad> Python has that instance id thingy for everything
2957
<glyph> Stravad: uh, that's not an OID, that's &foo; :-)
2959
<dash> radix: that's what id() does
2961
<radix> I read that as an XML entity
2963
<glyph> if zone transfers are bind fileformat
2964
<glyph> how much more complicated could this be than FTP? :)
2965
<dash> glyph: Prepare to be surprised.
2967
<dash> it's like a bicycle
2968
<dash> but with internet
2970
<dash> itamar: ok. well, given that Jesus did rise from the dead, one has to consider what this says about him
2971
<itamar> he was lucky?
2973
<moshez> we aren't really a dictatorship
2974
<moshez> we're more like an anarchy, except WE ELIMINATE PEOPLE WE DON'T LIKE
2976
<radix> sometimes i eat tums just cuz I like the taste
2977
<glyph> radix: that sounds like a bad idea
2978
<radix> you can never get enough calcium!@
2979
<glyph> radix: if your eyelids ever start sticking to your eyes, or you can't see or hear because a caky, white film has covered your eyes or ears, you may want to consider cutting back on your over-the-counter pharmiceutical intake
2980
<radix> hold up... let me raise the font size.
2983
<moshez> nobody resizes my text terminals and lives.
2985
<saph> radix: i've eaten nothing but a subway and a weird coconut thing my mom
2986
made that has a pecan on it and i was kind of afraid of it, but i was also
2987
very hungry so hunger won out on that one
2989
<glyph> the god of unit testing is going to kill me for this code
2990
<Tv> There is no such thing.
2991
<Tv> I would have been dead by lightning for years now.
2992
* liiwi notices the lack of god of code commenting too
2994
<queuetue> Are these actual people we're discussing, or another webcomic?
2996
<glyph> ono! I have forgotten the sacred waterfall
2998
<icepick> I, as someone who was a professional php programmer, can tell you: Think of the children
3000
<PenguinOfDoom> I reject that approach. It has a suspicious lack of internet.
3002
<glyph> itamar: uh, I *am* twistedmatrix.com
3004
<PenguinOfDoom> CA is definitely like life;
3005
<PenguinOfDoom> When is says "bonus", it means "you are buried"
3007
<itamar> i don't understand how COM works
3008
<MoonFallen> me neither
3009
<MoonFallen> i suspect it doesn't
3011
<lgonze> ok, name a security flaw in browsers.
3012
<raph> "bugtraq browser" returns about 37,100 hits on google
3013
<raph> sorry i don't have the patience to sift through them all
3015
<Yosomono> He's really a reasonable person, if you read his writing.
3016
<Yosomono> I mean, aside from the "lizards run the world" thing.
3018
<glyph> AND NOW FOR A MESSAGE FROM OUR SPONSOR
3019
<glyph> Are you WEIRD?
3020
<glyph> Are you MADE OF INTERNET?
3021
<glyph> Use Twisted! Or die. http://www.twistedmatrix.com/
3023
<MoonFallen> i know. but i've read too many horror stories. glyph gets run over
3024
by a truck, his source code gets acquired from his estate by microsoft, evil
3027
<radix> bah screw it
3029
<glyph> radix: hooray for faking
3031
<jml> will you take me, to build and to dist, in windows and in unix, till uninstall do we part?
3032
<jml> If any man here objects, let him speak now or ... "error: command 'cl.exe' failed: No such file or directory"
3034
<dash> moshez: why's that better?
3035
<moshez> dash: um, because it doesn't necessitate Elijah
3036
<moshez> so it's more portable
3037
<jml> re-use for fun and prophet
3039
<cow_2001> btw, for me python is love from first sight..
3040
<exarkun> and as with real love, it will fade after you copulate with it
3042
<itamar> just because he was dating a 16 year old that one time he was
3043
supposed to be doing a release...
3044
<gvanrossum> too much info, okay?
3046
<itamar> liiwi: europe has no business
3047
<itamar> thus it can't make business mistakes
3048
<itamar> bunch of socialists living in caves banging rocks together
3050
<liiwi> why not illegalize guns while they're at it?
3051
<chrchr> liiwi: Because they're Republicans. They love guns. It's _ideas_ they hate!
3052
<liiwi> let's start using shotguns to route packets
3054
<radix> I love killing everything with the sword
3056
<porridge> does python have an equivalent of C ternary "?:" operator?
3057
<Erwin> Python has the sextary operator, !@#$^&. Given expression x, each of the 6 operands of the sextary operator is evaluated depending on whether the expression is logically true, false, morally right or wrong or neither of those
3059
<exarkun> if you're lucky it causes segfaults
3060
<exarkun> if you're unlucky it signals the Mothership that Earth is ripe for invasion and brings about the destruction of all mankind
3062
<chrchr> fariseo: If PHP is like stabbing your eye sockets with a screwdriver, Python is like not stabbing your eye sockets with a screw driver.
3064
<saph> i don't know. i've smoked more than my fair share of pot in my day and i've never shot anyone or raped or been raped by anyone
3065
<saph> the most i'd do is make some really fucking cool paintings
3066
<saph> that and played the best scrabble game of my life
3067
<saph> but that was under the influence of both pot and alcohol
3068
<radix> "floopy! it's a word! I swear it!"
3070
<sjj> radix: I could smoke a pound of crack and still pronounce "nuclear" better than G.W.B
3072
<saph> sjj: president is a minimum age of 35 (which i think is complete bs)
3073
<saph> i know people who are 28 who could run the country better than bushy
3074
<sjj> saph: I could argue I know people 5 years old who could run it better than bush.
3075
* warner knows magic 8-balls which could etc..
3076
<saph> sjj: a ficus plant could do better
3077
<dash> warner: that's why i'm voting for Inanimate Carbon Rod!
3078
<jml> In Rod We Trust
3080
<sjj> moshez: I somewhat see what you meant about Gimli being the target of _lots_ of jokes in TT
3081
<sjj> moshez: it got a bit old after a while :\
3082
<Tv> Yes, the jokes fell a little.. short.
3084
<Pahan> Comfort me, please.
3087
<spiv> 11am - 6pm. For *five* whole days. And that's just one game! It's brilliant.
3088
<glyph> it's like the chanukah of professional sports!
3090
* warner has done too much work with intermittent test failures
3091
<warner> my worst nightmares involve the alarm clock only ringing on mornings after I fall asleep on minutes ending in an even number
3093
<Artimage> Says it will take 15 minutes
3094
<Tschechow> 15 _apple_ minutes.
3095
<Artimage> Actually, its already down to 4.
3096
<Tschechow> oh, you got hardware with an apple-minute-rate <1?
3098
<exarkun> it probably doesn't even belong in the evil directory
3099
<dash> exarkun: why, do you have a "stupid/"?
3101
<exarkun> bring on the dancing monkeys
3103
<exarkun> That works
3105
<moshez> jml: but euphemisms for sex are common in all languages :)
3106
<exarkun> moshez: what about lojban?
3107
<jml> exarkun: there's no record of any lojban speakers having sex. :)
3109
<jml> If I were a girl, I'd fall in love with a bloke who wrote copious amounts of documentation.
3111
<MoonFallen> i just signed up for a trial of o'reilly's safari thing, and noticed they had a "voodoo" topic category
3112
<MoonFallen> the first three books are about .NET
3113
<MoonFallen> i always had a feeling there was goat blood and zombies involved
3115
<moshez> Debian: If It's Free, Insecure and Crap, We have It.
3117
<jml> moshez: did you know that the average vegetarian walks around with 2 kgs
3118
of anti-establishment bile in their stomach? :)
3120
<moshez> glyph: in the future, browsers will support google://blah blah :)
3121
<glyph> moshez: in the future, telepathic russians will rule the earth, and computers will be made of synthetic cheese!
3122
<moshez> glyph: before that
3124
<faassen> I mean, do they say, okay, so bush looks like a born again christian with a faint hold on sanity but he's really a secular humanist and that's *good* or that's *worse*?
3125
<dash> faassen: he's a secular humanist with a faint hold on the english language
3127
<glyph> I'm an un-american anti-semitic american jew! I love this country.
3129
<hypatia> I'm not part of the American way because they don't let you own those kind of weapons around here :)
3131
<Pahan> dash uses windows?
3132
<Tenshihan> his grandparents do -- so he's got some windows in his blood
3133
<Tenshihan> it's like being a quarter jewish
3135
<dash> lament: well. inductive folds are pretty much the same thing as
3136
__get__ in python combined with the appropriate metaclass
3139
<jml> Let me put it this way.
3140
<jml> When I read 'Brave New World' I imagined most of it to be in a place very much like Canberra.
3142
<spiv> hypatia: I have seen snow!
3143
<hypatia> spiv: When? You mistook frost for snow one time :)
3145
<dash> see, in my day, we didn't have those fancy init scripts
3146
<dash> just zeroes and ones
3147
<dash> and we used upstream bandwidth both ways
3149
<Marvin--> well, yes, we know that /. is broken, but do you mean in some
3152
<jml> Argh!! what's happening to me. I'm melting..
3153
* Jerub hands jml a pamphlet : "So you've started to devolve into a primordial ooze".
3155
<moshez> dash: well, I lent my crystal ball to itamar
3156
<moshez> because his broke.
3157
<moshez> and then he broke mine.
3158
<moshez> evil itamar.
3159
<itamar> I did not break your balls!
3161
<Kengur> dash: r u familiar with the Nebula Device?
3162
<dash> Kengur: you.... *might* say that, yes
3163
<Erwin> Kengur: that's the self-destruction device Kirk threatens to blow up?
3164
<dash> Erwin: Kirk's was before the invention of C++, though
3165
<dash> Erwin: so they couldn't really imagine the horrificness
3167
<dash> sourceforge's CVS server is secretly dalnet!
3169
<moshez> Yosomono: I AM INSANE!!!!!
3173
<liiwi> hrmpf. concurrency issues are nasty
3174
* Tv gives liiwi two forks and invites him to join the table.
3175
<liiwi> Tv: can I bring my leatherman?
3176
<Tv> Well, only if you give up one fork.
3177
<Tv> We need to have the same number of tools and eaters.
3178
<Tv> Otherwise it's quite unfair :)
3180
<moshez> the common definitions say that after a person rises from his grave, he is the undead.
3181
<dash> moshez: Buffy definitions are not common definitions.
3182
<moshez> dash: Buffy could kick your ass.
3184
<ameoba> EVERYBODY GET STONED!!!
3185
<dash> ameoba: furthermore
3186
<dash> ameoba: everybody MUST get stoned
3187
<ameoba> YAY EQUALITY
3189
<z3D> dash: yup ... remember the word 'enterprise' ?
3190
<dash> z3D: YES! it is one of my favorite words
3192
<chrchr> datazone: jwz didn't invent "If the only tool you have is a hammer . . ." any more than the French invented tongue kissing.
3193
<datazone> chrchr: my grandpa invented french kissing
3194
<datazone> and i will be damned if i sit here and listen to you say that he didnt
3196
<exarkun> '''The MODE command is a dual-purpose command in IRC. It allows both usernames and channels to have their mode changed. The rationale for this choice is that one day nicknames will be obsolete'''
3197
<dash> yeah, and the marxist state will wither away
3199
* radix is a monkey with a bamboo stick
3200
* Kengur tries to trade banana for a bamboo stick
3202
* radix beats kengur on the head and steals his banana.
3203
<radix> You don't need trade when you've got a bamboo stick.
3205
<lament> Software Engineering is basically a set of techniques for making bad programmers write good code.
3206
<dash> lament: Which is why it doesn't work.
3208
<Yosomono> ameoba: my hand made me sleep on the couch :P
3210
<tansaku> mathematics is so about sex
3212
<chrchr> Spalding Grey made the point that comedians (and comic artists!) might spend a long time building up to the punchline at the end of the joke, while a good storyteller can have the audience laughing throughout the story.
3214
<exarkun> Spalding Grey is a monkey in red suspenders.
3215
<chrchr> exarkun: Excellent point.
3216
<chrchr> Everyone, how does exarkun's point about Spalding Grey being a monkey in red suspenders make you feel?
3218
<kiko> is it just me or is the term "software design" too vague to shake a stick at?
3219
<exarkun> kiko: get a bigger stick
3221
<jml> dash: is quoting pokey like mentioning the holocaust on usenet?
3223
<dash> jml: quoting pokey is recommended practice
3224
<jml> dash: but, it makes retort impossible.
3225
<dash> jml: you're beginning to understand
3227
<radix> HORRIBLE JAVASCRIPT ARGh
3228
<moshez> radix: when a teenage suicidal brooding girl builds a web site, what do you expect?
3230
<itamar> glyph: spyce.sf.net
3232
<glyph> yes, I've seen this before
3233
<glyph> I believe it was looking at this page that I coined the phrase "captain Dimwit McStupid"
3235
<fatjim> quotemaster: i know a guy on gimpnet who wrote his entire website in bash
3236
<fatjim> quotemaster: then he wrote an ircbot in bash
3237
<fatjim> quotemaster: then his head exploded and we had to burn the entire building to prevent an epidemic
3239
<dash> I�, const char* fhtagn
3241
<radix> When I take PCP, I pretend that I'm half-leprechaun-half-cheetah
3242
<dash> "You feel jumpy."
3244
<Acapnotic> Are there sound effects that accompany the speaking of "Debian Project Leader"? Trumpet fanfare or choir of angles or the hushed whispering of the cabal or something?
3245
<_moshez> Acapnotic: the Empire music from Star Wars
3246
<_moshez> dam dam dam dadadam dadadam
3248
<psy> good thing my 15yo sister also smokes rollies =P
3250
<dash> i used to think ms creighton was just insane, but i'm reminded of a .sig on the parrot list
3251
<dash> "the difference betweeen insanity and genius is measured by success"
3253
<sjj> itamar: you'll be sorry when the VIC is mainstream! you'll all be out of jobs HAHA
3255
<Logan> You might as well ban dancing next!
3256
<Yosomono> Logan: We don't allow that sort of reckless behaviour here.
3257
<Yosomono> Logan: It leads to fraternization amongs youngsters, and eventually PREMARITAL SEX
3259
<Logan> chrchr: Are you saying this channel is boring?
3260
<Logan> I think I saw something funny in here once.
3262
<glyph> oh. where is saph?
3263
<exarkun> she got a job
3265
<exarkun> It's a mixed blessing
3266
<glyph> What's in the mix?
3267
<exarkun> I get to hear about how I don't have one a lot :P
3269
* zookoasleep sleeps furiously.
3271
<raph> [WebDAV] probably has all the disadvantages of a stateless protocol combined with the problems of actually implementing state
3273
<chrchr> If I had dignity, I'd have to start wearing pants to work.
3275
<amybah> THE REVOLUTION WILL BE TELEVISIED (to drm compliant devices)
3277
<dash> "we wisssssh to sssquissssh, my preciousss"
3279
<itamar> glyph freaked out my grandmother
3281
<dash> [From the GPL FAQ:] "If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program"
3282
<dash> the days of "one process == one program" are coming to an end, i believe
3283
<SamB> o/` Python is a totally different way of thinking, which doesn't have much to do with linking o/`
3285
<glyph> moshez, you are only allowed to be excited about one insipid american cultural icon at a time
3286
<moshez> glyph: have you not realized that at heart, I'm an american teenage girl :)
3288
<moshez> I prefer the ones who fully embrace, knowingly and publically, the commercialization
3289
<moshez> than the ones who commercialize by being "non-commercial" (Eminem is the prime example here)
3290
<Aco> whatever... i just like girls in white panties
3292
<lstep> It's not my fault, my wife keeps connecting under false identities to monitor me!
3294
<wzZzy> I tried to use woven.guard sunday night
3296
<wzZzy> hazmat: glyph's powers of obfuscation are considerable
3298
<icepick> to the batlaptop!
3300
<moshez> radix: oh, and did I tell you I'm officially a sock puppet now?
3302
<wzZzy> what's up mjs
3303
<mjs> wzZzy: nothing much, just got home from school... yourself?
3304
<wzZzy> mjs: workin'
3305
<mjs> that's what you are always doing. =)
3306
<wzZzy> that's cause I have a job
3308
<raph> but if you are going to combine a scoring system with eigenvectors, it's a lot easier to think about linear things than funky bayesian formulae
3309
<wmf> eigenbloggers are useful, too
3310
* raph prepares to eigensmack wmf
3311
<raph> prepare to compute the eigenvalue of _this_, fool
3313
<exarkun> nethack should be made illegal
3314
<exarkun> it corrupts the minds of otherwise upstanding young men
3315
<dash> exarkun: dont make it illegal 'til after i get this fellow into gehennom
3317
<glyph> I am getting my design on.
3318
<glyph> (For those of you not already in the aisles, this means: RUN!!!!)
3319
<glyph> I _really_ like this one
3320
<glyph> it may not be appropriate for the main site, but we're going to have to use it someplace
3322
<glyph> radix: Your credulity is not a requirement for precipitation!
3324
<shapr> no one wants to play with my monads :-(
3326
<ThreeSeas> what is melatonin?
3327
<ThreeSeas> is that like another programming language?
3329
<gus> doesn't the phonetic representation (Zo["o]l.) mean that it should be pronounced "Zoul"?
3330
<glyph> I don't know...
3331
<glyph> I can't read phonetic.
3332
<gus> and all this time I thought you were phonecian.
3334
<exarkun> Oh. The infamous "Windows sucks" bug.
3336
<datazone> you know, america has alot of different military orginazations
3337
<radix> yes, maybe they'll get into a war
3339
<radix> i want to make sweet love to twisted.python.components
3340
<ameoba> radix : it probably wouldn't be hard to whip up an adapter +)
3342
<jml> _moshez: having dates would be kinda cool.
3343
<itamar> jml: if you take a shower every day, you'll find it's a lot more
3346
<trawa_@ircnet> im trying to get started with web services, but i need
3347
some software - i think i read all of ibm's articles on that, read
3348
about 4suite - does anyone know of sth litghter, smaller in size and
3350
<dash> trawa: hmm. what do you mean by "get started with web services"? :)
3351
<trawa_@ircnet> well im trying to port my html application to flash mx
3352
but dont fell like using cold fusion..
3354
<exarkun> What powers the orbital lasers
3355
<exarkun> I always assumed it was the Sun, but now I don't think that would work too well
3356
<exarkun> Unless we are anticipating zero resistance after the destruction of the Sun
3357
<exarkun> This sounds like a serious flaw in our plans, then
3359
<floam> itamar: think of how the anonymous bathroom fits in with the way our society works
3361
<floam> the paper towel represents the customers
3363
<dash> perl has EVERYTHING.
3364
<brc> except buffer overflows
3366
<wzZzy> we should write an os
3368
* itamar starts a sourceforge project
3370
<chrchr> There are some dead/preserved carpenter ants in a bag in the mailroom of the building where I live, and a sign that says, "THESE ARE CARPENTER ANTS. BEWARE!!"
3371
<datazone> chrchr: why do they assume ants can read, and if they can read, that they can read english?
3373
<sayke> those whom the gods would destroy they first make l33t
3375
<shapr> ucking keyoar
3377
<drewp> this twisted thing really is a text adventure game
3378
<dash> drewp: What a ridiculous notion.
3379
private message from dash: wuh oh, drewp is on to us
3381
* itamar goes to french class
3382
<radix> FRENCH class???
3383
<radix> Don't you mean FREEDOM class?
3385
<glyph> my condolances
3386
<itamar> if Thunder- solves it i'll be ok
3387
<itamar> writing a C++ extension to open a fucking find dialog is soooo fun
3389
<glyph> I meant "my condolances on failing to stop the war" :)
3391
<moshez> glyph: I have an ethical question for you.
3392
<glyph> moshez: my answer, as always, is "kill them all and let god sort them out"
3394
<snibri1> i wonder if those boost ppl ever sleep
3395
<jemfinch> snibri1: why?
3396
<AdamV> snibri1: Nightmares from C++ template coding?
3398
<Artimage> Amazon wish lists are really a double edged sword.
3399
<Artimage> This guy made me his amazon friend... so I checked out his list...
3400
<Artimage> lots of 'how to make your own porno movies' books... I now know WAY TOO MUCH... but I have no clue who he is.
3401
<Artimage> I would have to know someone at least a week before I'd be interested in knowing this.
3403
<treker> pyn ur fuckin hot
3406
<moshez> marz: don't be scared!
3407
<moshez> marz: the squishing is fun
3410
<dash> it's like a tiny genocide
3411
<moshez> marz: ok, ask anyone except dash
3413
<moshez> dash: what is your profession, again?
3414
<dash> moshez: "irc junkie"
3415
<moshez> dash: good money in that, huh?
3416
<dash> moshez: money?
3417
<dash> moshez: now that you mention it
3418
<dash> most of my jobs lately have come from irc
3420
[re: porting the rewrite of jelly to Scheme]
3421
<radix> So is it still really mutaty?
3422
<glyph> It's so mutaty you're going to be using 'set' with *two* exclamation points
3424
<jml> you ever heard about cosmic conflicts between the forces of order and
3425
the forces of chaos? Well, Canberra is like Order winning, stomping over the
3426
frail corpse of chaos, and all spontenaity, surprise and flexibility
3427
disappearing from the world.
3429
<Spec> Damn you pyn. You are now my greatest adversary.
3431
<-- Spec has quit ("The bell that controls our lives has released us into the world....woot.")
3433
<exarkun> What's a good, low-cost way to notice when a new file exists in a directory?
3434
<SamB> exarkun: open the directory for reading, read to the end, and use select? (crazy!)
3436
<coderman> you ever see my callback templates for use with static and member functions?
3437
<coderman> it works nicely, which is a credit to the STL, but it is also so incredibly ugly it makes my head hurt
3438
<coderman> http://cubicmetercrystal.com/alpine/gen_html/base/AppUtils/AppCallback.h.html
3439
<zooko> What the fuck, man? Why are you memcpying these void*'s? Where is callbackData_ defined? What are all these things templated on "class argument Type"?? AAAAiiiigh!
3440
* zooko holds one hand over his eyes and clicks blindly with the mouse in the attempt to hit the "close window" button.
3442
* Acapnotic puts on his "in MY day, we had to write our modelines by hand, with nothing more than some loose notes by matt walsh, the back on an envelope, and the blood from our own hands..." pants.
3444
<jml> the phrase "unstable reactor" makes me feel a little nervous
3446
<etrepum> dance dance hack?
3447
<radix> hack hack revolution
3449
<pyn> <widada@ircnet> this is what i see: "<pyn> <radix@fn> Huh?"
3450
<pyn> <princepsd@ircnet> do you want to see somethingelse?
3451
<pyn> <princepsd@ircnet> ;))
3452
<pyn> <princepsd@oftc> or is this to much for you? ;))
3453
<pyn> <princepsd@efnet> the bridge confuses you?
3454
<princepsd> you can't keep track? ;))
3456
<exarkun> why would someone mount a swapfile from an NFS mount?
3457
<MoonFallen> exarkun: to bring about an anarchic dystopia
3459
<princepsd> marxist witted is a anagram of twistedmatrix
3461
<exarkun> z3p: conch is making me sad again
3462
<z3p> exarkun: conch only does ssh, it is not responsible for also making you happy
3465
<bram> it's nice being a cult leader :-)
3466
<bram> now I must get my minions to start giant bonfires in the woods and do ritual dances around them
3468
<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: Does it amuse you sometimes to realize you've created an entire genre of coding for people?
3469
<glyph> Yosomono: "sometimes"? It amuses me constantly. It's become the central staple of my entire sense of humor, as well as my livelihood.
3470
<glyph> It is easily the most amusing thing in my life.
3472
<dash> if python is an orchestra, overloaded operators are "miscellaneous percussion"
3474
<radix> Don't be a consumer! Live off the land
3475
<itamar> there are no pants-trees in nyc
3477
<fzZzy> what good is planetary consciousness if it can't open an arbitrary socket?
3479
<jml> can someone briefly explain componentized in the context of the web registry?
3480
<spiv> jml: You've got an internet cloud, right? Only, you're reading isometric, so you really want an internet *cube*.
3481
So, you take your componentised cloud, and ask it for a cube adapter. Then exigency girl arrives, kicks your ass, and everyone
3484
<spiv> As far as I'm concerned, the meat pie is the ultimate unit of currency.
3486
<Noen> fear twisted, because its leet
3488
<glyph> jml: I PROMISE I really thought popsicle was a good idea at the time.
3490
<jml> balsa is crying out to be re-written in Twisted
3491
<jml> 'heal me' 'heal me'
3492
<jml> 'I don't want to be threaded'
3493
<Acapnotic> yeah, lots of mail programs say that
3494
<jml> Acapnotic: It must be very easy to write GUI mail programs that suck
3495
<Acapnotic> it is, but a lot of people have gone above and beyond the
3496
bare minimal effort required
3498
<warner> Activate the Flux Condensor!
3499
<MoonFallen> We can fix it by patching the wireless with a subspace access point!
3500
<itamar> the powerbook's dilithium crystals are not in tune with the mr814 access point
3501
* warner looks through his toolbox for a transdimensional flux agitator
3502
<warner> uh-oh, we've got a level 3 resonance singularity
3503
<MoonFallen> But it'll be risky! We've got to get the harmonics oscillating
3504
correctly before Buffy comes on, or we'll be dead in the water.
3505
<warner> Right, you align the warp power conduits while I re-fractalize the
3506
positronic emitters. We meet back on the engineering level in 40
3509
<warner> happy tests, fat buildmaster
3510
<spiv> warner: I can practically hear it yelling "Feed me, warner!" from
3512
<spiv> Heh. Now I'm envisaging a "Little Shop of Hackers" with the
3513
buildmaster as the plant (and the buildslaves for tendrils!), and poor
3514
warner as Seymour :)
3516
<spiv> For some reason, I keep thinking of _moshez as the dentist ;)
3518
<exarkun> radix: [dash] *is* a lazy sob
3519
<exarkun> radix: but that doesn't mean he's wrong
3521
<itamar> I don't want my name in the windows registry
3522
<itamar> it's probably bad luck
3524
<exarkun> it's JAVA, if you didn't want to type FIFTY LINES to do ONE STUPID THING you wouldn't be using it, right?
3526
<jml> _moshez: yeah, but that's obviously an imposed patriarchal paradigm
3527
that's entirely foreign to the implicit metanarritive.
3528
<flax07> not to be ot - but can anyone give some newbie help
3530
<freeside> On a scale of One to AWESOME, twisted.web is PRETTY ABSTRACT!!!!
3532
<rik> note to self: do not advise people to use a Deferred when in #c.
3534
<saph> dash: when you take over the world, can i be in charge of leather and vinyl active wear?
3536
<Nafai> w00t w00t w00t w00t!
3537
<Nafai> I don't understand all of the code, but it works!
3538
<Nafai> I guess I should check it in.
3540
<moshez> glyph: I don't care about actual people
3541
<moshez> glyph: I care about not screwing up Debian
3543
<arno> what are the main things to change going from [bsddb] 3.3 to 4.1?
3544
<icepick> moving around when you open transactions
3545
<arno> sounds like money laundering strategies...
3547
<gt3> welcome to the world wide wtf
3549
<glyph> warner: you want to port twisted to PyMite?
3550
<warner> now *that* would be entertaining..
3551
<Nafai> ...for various definitions of entertaining
3553
<zooko> I don't know if I'll have much time, but my goals are: 1. test_ent.py, 2. ent.py, 3. make znff.py use ent.py, 4. rule the universe
3555
<hypatia> moshez: That's OK, you can feature in my diary as "Glyph's bitch".
3557
<akrherz> quotacheck <-- Do I have quota left for more questions :)
3558
<radix> akrherz: Insert $.25
3559
<akrherz> where? Can I just give my credit card?
3560
<radix> akrherz: That'll do.
3561
<akrherz> wow, the internet is fantastic
3563
<glyph> dreid: so you have some free time?
3564
<dreid> glyph: not really but i could always sleep less
3566
<jml> any world knowledge-ables about?
3568
<chrchr> jml: Oh. You mean twisted.world.
3570
<jml> chrchr: I am not aware of any other.
3572
<wumpus> google, froogle, when are they going to start making names that make sense? :P
3573
<wumpus> even the twisted module names make more sense
3575
<dash> wumpus: names that make sense are at an end
3576
<dash> wumpus: they have been all trademarked
3578
<chrchr> radix: Are you at NASA? Do you see any of the aliens?
3580
<radix> chrchr: They don't keep the aliens at Goddard, anyway
3582
<_moshez> dash: we need to make Twisted into, pardon the comparison, Zope
3584
<Holocaine> moshez: I think your bad wrap comes from the fact that all of us
3585
are far too postmodern for your version of correctness. =)
3587
--- itamar has changed the topic to: "We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." -- David Clark
3588
<dash> also, giant robots.
3590
<itamar> better not have children anywhere [POWERFUL CORPORATION'S NAME ELIDED -ed] can fly lawyers
3592
<etrepum> they're not that bad
3593
<itamar> that's what they all say
3594
<itamar> and then it's "but I didn't think they take *my* little Joanne!"
3596
<dash> fortunately not all people who call themselves christians are bloodthirsty imperialists
3598
<glyph> dreid: you want to talk about the web?
3600
<glyph> dreid: I THINK THE WEB IS TERRIBLE
3601
<dreid> well there is always gopher
3603
<zoyd> someone help me with using dictclient.py
3604
<zoyd> the dict.org client that is.
3605
<tappintap> zoyd: what are you trying to do. Start at the beginning, like: I
3606
got up today, and I wanted to paint the shed.
3608
<dash> there is a particular sense of fatigue that i have come to associate with the aftermath of attempting to troubleshoot windows problems
3611
<itamar> Windows Server 2003 CD
3612
<itamar> 180 day evaluation
3613
<glyph> itamar: damn! that's half as good as the full product
3615
<ivan> i can't wait till palladium!
3616
<ivan> cheat-free gaming at last
3618
<jml> spiv: some might call it rewriting, I call it "refactoring from zero"
3620
<Nafai> I need to find a reason to learn Woven. :)
3621
<exarkun> it will get you laid
3623
<Nafai> I'm not sure I believe you.
3625
<jml> if I'm stuck in windows, what's a good browser?
3626
<jml> preferably one that implements the Aquinas protocol so I can get infinite bandwidth with no hardware upgrades
3628
<radix> THE REAL WORLD IS JUST LIKE HIGH SCHOOL
3630
* radix shoots himself.
3632
<exarkun> "While working on a web framework late one night, Mr. Preston was sucked into an http vortex and trapped on the internet. Now he roams from website to website, crying at code embedded in malformed html templates and exploiting cross site scripting bugs."
3634
<AdamV> SamB: PHP's basic control structure is the "database timeout error".
3636
<tjs> I was telling the guys at work about woven, and they asked me to implement it in php.. I told them, without battering an eyelid, that it was totally impossible.. sometimes you just have to stand up for whats right
3638
<tjs> they have xml parsers for php
3639
<dash> I AM NOT EVEN GOING TO THINK ABOUT IT
3641
<WuN> my school went on a trip to Queens U last week (like we stayed the week
3642
in the dorms and such), and i took java... i learned 3 things that week:
3643
1) i dont like java 2) lectures suck 3) not having parents is amazing
3645
<Yosomono@efnet> chrchr: In MMORPGs, I typically play female characters too.
3646
Mostly because if I'm gonna spend a lot of time looking at
3647
this person's ass while they're running around, I wanna see
3650
<Tv> How does everyone feel about getting all dirty with low-level networking in twisted?
3651
<Tv> I'm thinking ip, udp etc.
3652
<Tv> As in, "here's the full packet".
3653
<itamar> personally, it fills me with an unholy glee
3655
<itamar> Tv: there are people who will offer to marry you if you release this
3657
<jml> if only I could eat whitespace
3659
*** prell (~prell@106.165.8.67.cfl.rr.com) has joined channel #twisted
3660
<prell> glyph: thanks :-)
3661
*** prell (~prell@106.165.8.67.cfl.rr.com) has quit: Client Quit
3662
<liiwi> wow, a drive-by thanking
3664
<exarkun> radix: also, I need a crossover cable.
3665
<radix> wth are you using cables for
3666
<radix> cables are gross
3667
<etrepum> because sometimes you want bandwidth
3669
<etrepum> well you can go play your infocom games and I'll transfer large files
3671
On 2003.05.23 18:54, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
3672
> On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 06:45 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
3673
> > The next big thing is to fantasize about nonexistent programming
3674
> > languages that make good compile and runtime decisions for you.
3676
> Hey wait! I'm *really good* at that! Let me tell you about this paper
3677
> I read on linear objects...
3679
[Later that day, on IRC...]
3680
<radix> dash: dogg! glyph is cutting up
3681
<radix> dash: latest post to t-p
3682
<dash> radix: Yeah, i know he hates me and wants me to die
3683
<dash> radix: why, what's new?
3685
<dash> cfork: if all you have are nails, there's no need to pick up the
3686
biggest hammer with the poison-ivy oil on the handle every time
3688
<zooko> I once had a party in Amsterdam, and there were two live webcams, and I was worried that people would
3689
<zooko> accidentally do something on camera that they didn't intend to.
3690
<zooko> So I spent a long time making great big signs, hard to miss even if you are fucked up, saying
3691
<zooko> "THERE IS A WEB CAM IN THIS ROOM" and stuff like that.
3692
<zooko> As soon as the party started some people pushed the cam aside and started doing lines of coke on the desktop.
3694
<chrchr> datazone-work: Some people dominate the world because they can't hold down a regular job and like the flexible hours that world domination offers.
3696
<fzZzy> dang. when there are so many layers of abstraction you don't understand it's tough to do a minimal test :(
3697
<fzZzy> and when glyph writes no docstrings
3698
<fzZzy> now I know how people feel trying to use woven
3700
<Tv> Enough rope to shoot a foot in your mouth.
3701
<_moshez> enough mixed metaphors to grab a bull by its horns?
3702
<Tv> Enough mixed metaphors to grab a bull and eat it, too.
3704
<glyph> jml: world needs help
3705
<spiv> glyph: Sound like you need to put an ad out for a superhero
3706
<glyph> spiv: all too true
3707
<glyph> world.save()
3709
<moshez> the breasts are part of the cognitive dissonance
3711
<glyph> So, how do I tell distutils to compile/link with g++ rather than gcc?
3712
<spiv> glyph: By typing your commands IN BLOOD
3715
<cehteh> Segmentation fault
3717
<whitestar> cehteh: sucks to be foo()!
3718
<deltab> I pity the foo()
3720
<itamar> ambivalent?
3723
<radix> how many people are we going to get posting to the list "How do I do X? I can't use <perfect solution>, it doesn't fit my design" today?
3725
<sjj> spiv: where does your family live?
3726
<spiv> sjj: Singleton.
3728
<limi> I need some sex to adjust my sleeping patterns
3729
<limi> the only thing that *really* works ;)
3731
<sjj> dash: you certainly are an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a hat.
3733
<cyli> actually I signed on because i was curious to see what people thought about the stem cell debate
3734
<radix> cyli: I'm with Dream Theater on that one
3735
<glyph> radix: You believe that the decision on the debate should involve a melodic but very complex 10-minute sample montage?
3736
<radix> glyph: Hell yes
3738
<Alea> Just spent the last 6 months writing const-ridden C++ code...
3739
<radix> I've *never* had to copy a data structure before returning in any of my code
3740
<radix> Alea: We're a more, ahh, free-thinking bunch. Like hippies, you know?
3741
* radix passes some pot to Alea
3743
<dash> glyph: i don't see anything else you'd want to use '' for
3744
<glyph> dash: a user named ''
3745
<dash> glyph: is there a good reason to allow users named that? :)
3746
<jml> : of course not
3748
<itamar> stupid useless gods
3750
<moshez> glyph: but I'd recommend giving him a ban
3751
<moshez> it's like chops
3752
<moshez> except better
3754
<Jerub> Why do people punish themselves with latex?
3755
<anthony> Jerub: well, you see... oh. you mean LaTeX.
3757
<cyli> maybe you can help me w/ more of woven's dynamic stuff?
3758
<cyli> you said it was really cool and you could do all sorts of weird things with it
3759
<cyli> does that involve lots of javascript?
3761
<glyph> as well as blood of a Polynesian virgin
3762
<cyli> i thought the blood of a germanic princess
3763
<glyph> germanic princess is OK for static pages
3765
<pr0le> I find that when i get sex regularly, i tend to be more productive as a programmer.
3766
<pr0le> conversely, when i don't get it regularly, i am more productive as a musician.
3767
<MoonFallen> pr0le: i'm not a musician. i guess that makes my priorities very clear.
3769
<allexpro> why does twisted want to destroy the sun?
3770
<MFen> give it a gimmick in the overcrowded python network framework market?
3771
<MFen> you know, those feature checkboxes on those comparison pages. [x] tcp [x] udp [x] asynchronous [x] destroyed the sun
3772
<MFen> and on the right it would be like competitor ------ [x] tcp [x] udp [x] asynchronous [ ] destroyed the sun
3774
<abram> Anyone up for answering a Deferred question?
3775
<dash> abram: ask your question now, get an answer later!
3777
<glyph> the answer, of course, is "fuck Windows"
3779
On 2003.06.25 05:36, Moshe Zadka wrote:
3780
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, "W.J." wrote:
3781
> > I really hope twisted is not going to enforce this.
3783
> Twisted is not about enforcement. Twisted is about mocking people who are
3784
> using the technology in non-optimal ways.
3786
<saph> dash: moshe rules!
3788
<dash> but he'll have to fight me first
3789
<saph> dash: it has to be a clean fight, no stilts, no hats
3791
<Rumor> dash: What is this, the spanish inquisition?
3792
<dash> rumor: This is me asking you to think.
3794
<itamar> lets change the subject
3795
<glyph> itamar: Okay, let's talk about your inadequacies instead
3797
<tic> horray! twisted is working!
3798
<tic> now let's see if that IRC client thingy is working as well.
3799
<glyph> tic: QUICK SHUT IT DOWN BEFORE I ROOT YOUR COMPUTER
3800
<tic> glyph, NO PLAES DONNT!
3802
<itamar> I'm half jewish!
3803
<itamar> the other half is also jewish though
3805
* rt tries to think back to his college courses. "Elementary Carnivorous Dinosaur Avoidance 101" sticks out as a particularly useful class.
3806
<chrchr> rt: I think you might be dating yourself.
3808
<hefzibah> peaceniks never make up their minds - never date one.
3810
<lament> Slashdot karma, unfortunately, is not real karma, because it doesn't involve the death of the people who have it
3812
<glyph> spiv: FIX FTP
3813
<spiv> glyph: I'm a little pissed atm... don't encourage me to write code :)
3814
<sjj> spiv: pissed as in angry or pissed as in australian?
3816
<Riastradh> Syntax causes cancer of the semicolon.
3817
<radix> syntax rules
3818
<Riastradh> syntax-rules rules.
3820
<glyph> radix: PEACE AND LOVE!!!
3823
<chrchr> What's the word for a potion that makes people horny? I
3824
forget the word. Wild mead is supposed to do that.
3827
<glyph> LordVan: I don't know why people keep using twisted for all this serious stuff. It's a mud with a mailserver.
3829
<glyph> For example - if you came in here asking "how do I use a jackhammer" we might ask "why do you need to use a jackhammer"
3830
<glyph> If the answer to the latter question is "to knock my grandmother's head off to let out the evil spirits that gave her cancer", then maybe the problem is actually unrelated to jackhammers
3832
<Pahan> exarkun: Are you a brain surgeon?
3833
<exarkun> Pahan: I know where your brain is, and I've used a knife before, if that's what you mean.
3835
<moshez> nobomb: the rumours that we mutilated and killed people who badmouthed Twisted are completely unsubstantiated
3836
<exarkun> but please stay out of the garage
3838
<nobomb> since i learnt netscape started in a garage...i've yet to enter one
3839
<nobomb> something like that must be spawned from fornication carrion beasts
3840
<moshez> and what do the carrion beats feed on?
3841
<moshez> I can't tell you what they don't feed on!
3842
<nobomb> the limbs of mutilated twisted naysayers
3843
<moshez> and that's bodies of people we killed for badmouthing Twisted
3845
<moshez> because there aren't any!
3848
<hypatia> I don't think charmed is so applicable there?
3849
<moshez> I don't think the Charmed ones got their powers a little later
3850
<moshez> on the bad part, spiv would die :(
3851
<hypatia> That's the price you pay for superpowers.
3852
<hypatia> Nobody gets superpowers and happiness.
3853
<hypatia> Sorry spiv -- I'm trading up!
3855
<glyph> what the hell am I going to do with a dozen donuts?
3856
<dash> make 11 new friends
3858
<moshez> itamar: I mean, it's fun that I can trace ancestry pretty much to the people who invented flamewars, 3k years ago
3859
<itamar> moshez: this would explain a lot about you, yes
3861
<glyph> dizzyd: yeah, microdom.py vs. sux.py :)
3863
<glyph> radix: sux would totally whup microdom's ass
3864
<glyph> radix: it would be all scary dressed up in leather and chains and shit
3865
<glyph> and microdom would have a little bow tie
3867
<phed> glyph: If I take care of some children, and I tell somebody else, "I just let them do whatever they want"...
3868
<phed> glyph: then people like you say "what if they KILL somebody! Shriek!".
3869
<glyph> phed: they actually say that? they say "shriek"?
3870
<phed> Shriek is the matingcall of people I hate
3871
<glyph> norway is a weird place
3873
<dash> soon copyright will be dead
3874
<dash> and bookmobiles will roam the streets of america freely
3876
<moshez> jml: I AM A STANDARD
3878
<dizzyd> dude, life is good once you get the hang of this framework
3879
<dizzyd> my code just drizzles into modularity
3881
<dash> First they [the dev. team for Evolution: Worlds, a console game]
3882
break mimesis, then they break the first rule of RPGs!
3883
<glyph> what is the first rule of RPGs?
3884
<dash> schizophrenic kleptomania
3886
<itamar> ow ow ow my head
3887
<fzZzy> gently down the stream
3888
<dash> merrily merrily merrily
3889
<fzZzy> itamar is in pain
3890
<itamar> I am going to kill you all
3892
<moshez> I want to use ed
3893
<moshez> but ed has flaws :(
3894
<dash> i would venture to say that ed is composed entirely of flaws
3896
<moshez> spiv: I cry wolf all the time, but that's because
3897
WE'RE SURROUNDED BY WOLFS!
3899
<itamar> I must work
3901
<dash> ooh, i have an idea
3902
<dash> clone noam chomsky and hire the clones as greeters at wal-mart
3903
<itamar> I've never been to a walmart
3904
<itamar> how does that work?
3905
<dash> itamar: it is a big room full of stuff
3906
<glyph> dash: "Hello, you bourgeois military-industrial pig! Would you like
3909
<MFen> irc is sort of a window into the schizophrenic part of the
3911
* Nafai tries to smash the window
3913
<dunker> ah so the kqueue reactor doesn't spawn right
3914
<spiv> dunker: Maybe it needs a full moon in spring, like certain types of fish?
3916
<jml> watching classic films and reading classic books is worth it, in general, just to appreciate The Simpsons more
3918
<lac> my problem is that i have the new cisco wireless card
3919
<lac> and I cannot get it to work
3920
<lac> with my debian linux. curse it all.
3921
<lac> also running it makes my dishwasher go nuts
3923
<BradB> Perl's main appeal is more social than technical. They have fun
3924
tricking Perl into doing things we don't even have to think about in
3927
<avida> like with enumerate(), i would go back to al my code and use enumerate ...
3928
<avida> im obsessed that way
3929
<dash> is it rad to be obsessed avida
3930
<avida> dash: its killer radical, indeed
3932
<Riastradh> glyph, explain why I'm writing twisted-scheme, then...and
3933
making it implementation-independant.
3934
<glyph> Riastradh: because you are a WONDERFUL PERSON, even though I
3937
<itamar> why does my 1.8ghz pc take 30 seconds to delete start menu items
3938
<itamar> what is it *doing*
3939
<radix> contacting the mothership by emanating magnetic signals from the movement of the HD heads across the platters.
3941
<itamar> oh look, these people are writing a "pragmatic language"! from scratch
3942
<itamar> someone get me some of those drugs
3943
<itamar> I don't enjoy reality any more
3945
<Pahan> It looks like a very cool tihng.
3946
<Pahan> But ugh, I hate fragile software.
3947
<radix> Pahan: wtf, you're a l33t C++ hacker.
3948
<radix> Pahan: you should be used to it.
3950
<etrepum> worst case you waste 40 bucks, best case it just works.. somewhere in the middle, you learn how to write a kernel driver
3952
<moshez> deltab: "write to stderr" is not a logging technology
3954
<radix> hooray! death to privatization
3956
<fzZzy> css is like putting a bandaid on your SEVERED HEAD
3959
<dash> but some of us are more trying than others
3961
<tenth> The issue tracker that solves the issue of failing to use the issue
3962
tracker will rule the earth as a living god someday.
3964
<Acapnotic> dash: how are the cookies connected to glyph's internet again?
3965
<dash> Acapnotic: wires
3967
<MFen> i don't want to look at it. but someone else should. seriously
3968
<MFen> hard work is not my thing
3970
<Erwin> it provides some thin abstractinos around Python objects so
3971
you don't have to screw around with refcounting, but nothing much
3972
<exarkun> abstractinos!
3973
<exarkun> the elementary particle of abstraction
3974
<exarkun> excite them to high enough energy and they release their
3975
gluons, resulting in a refactor!
3976
<exarkun> but don't excite them too much, or you'll end up with all
3977
abstraction and no implementation!
3979
<radix> my misfortune is that Broken Sword crashing in the same spot
3980
<radix> every time i try to play through it
3982
<radix> my computer sucks
3983
<dash> radix: yeah, this is why i don't buy games that say "broken" on the box
3985
<Ron> I'm beginning to suspect that statically linking is a bad idea?
3986
<exarkun> Not if you own a lot of shares of Maxtor or Seagate
3988
<moshez> IInsanity(moshez).squish(IHandsHaving(radix))
3990
<radix> what the heck are you talking about
3992
<Nafai> MFen: Is that a drug like snow crash?
3993
<MFen> almost exactly like that, but without the ninja motorcycle chase
3995
* moshez is insane toad
3999
<tjs> at least C++ is comparitivly sane
4000
<tjs> my day job is php
4004
<exarkun> btw I hate imap
4006
<etrepum> python should come with a disclaimer
4007
<etrepum> that says you may not want to use anything else ever again
4009
<MFen> want to write my requirements for me?
4011
<radix> "show a dancing monkey in the about box"
4013
<dash> foom: at one level, i'd just say "screw that, let people share objects if they're foolish enough to try"
4014
<foom> yes, that's called "threading"
4015
<foom> and everyone is foolish enough to try
4017
<moshez> I miss the hype!!
4019
"from experience and months of lurking, I would say the Twisted newbie
4020
experience is characterised by waves of confusion and euphoria."
4023
<sjj> one day you will understand how it is I came to be the sole
4024
owner of this lemonade
4025
<warner> you killed all the other kids at the lemonade stand, didn't you
4026
<sjj> hah hah haaah, free enterprise!
4028
<moshez> exarkun: I will tell saph to uncynicalize you
4029
<itamar> with a SHOTGUN
4030
<itamar> the cynicism will leak out the holes
4032
<chrchr> SamB: pirate is an implementation of Python for the Parrot VM.
4033
<exarkun> Argh, matey.
4036
<itamar> that's not womanizing
4037
<itamar> that's objectification, closely related to OBJECTIVISM
4038
<radix> i like it a lot
4040
<sjj> so i'm trying to keep glyph out of jail and / or financial ruin
4042
<dash> "some guy in blue sunglasses killed the last guy who worked here. We think he was from the future."
4043
<glyph> dash: my sunglasses are mirrored grey, actually
4044
<dash> glyph: the ones you have NOW, you mean
4046
<MFen> anything that makes glyph go OH SHIT makes me want to buy garlic and silver bullets and get a lawyer
4047
<MFen> the silver bullets are in case it's a werewolf, the lawyer is in case it's a lawsuit and the garlic is to protect me from the lawyer
4049
<fzZzy> Yay! Advertising: Internal Server Error
4050
<fzZzy> my favorite kind of advertising
4052
<glyph> well, well, well.
4054
<glyph> My desk is in the correct position.
4055
<glyph> My internet is on.
4056
<dash> glyph: GENERATE REVENUE
4058
<exarkun> rt: we could do with an out of control suicide rate
4059
<rt> unless you're willing to lead the way, I wouldn't go making that
4061
<exarkun> rt: I would, but if I hurl people off a cliff, it's murder, not
4064
<itamar> why isn't my mac shipping :(
4065
<MFen> they ran out of candy canes and gumdrops
4067
<raph> of course, from a mathematical point of view, "working" and "IMAP" are probably incompatible concepts
4069
<moshez> dance dance EVIL revolution
4070
<moshez> this is a game I will invent
4071
<moshez> it's like DDR
4072
<moshez> except on HEADS
4073
<moshez> hahahaah evil
4075
<ivan> why the *fuck* do we have 2.4ghz devices everywhere when water resonates at 2.4ghz and we're 90% water?
4076
<ivan> is this a conspiracy theory to kill us all?
4077
<exarkun> yes, ivan.
4078
<exarkun> very clever.
4079
<exarkun> you've found them out.
4080
<exarkun> you realize you've killed us all, I hope?
4082
<Acapnotic> I have a problem with edonkey though, and that is that I get hypnotized by the many parallel download meters
4083
<Acapnotic> one time I spent three days without eating, sleeping, or coding, just looking at the little progress meters and watching clients connect and disconnect and whatnot
4085
<saph_w> dash: how are you?
4086
<dash> saph_w: better than i deserve
4088
<dash> time to get my abstracti on
4090
<radix> PHP doesn't have interfaces, it has REIFIED PAIN
4092
<itamar> if I ever write a novel
4093
<itamar> the chapters will start with quotes from the quotefile
4095
<exarkun> my knowledge is exceeded only by good looks and success with the ladies
4096
<dash> exarkun: easy to believe
4097
<dash> they wouldn't have far to go
4099
<headh> where python stores its modules?
4101
<exarkun> the modules roam free in the valley of IP
4102
<exarkun> just beyond the IANA peaks and the black chasm of the IETF
4104
<lament> Listening to your heart? Pfft
4105
<lament> it's boring
4106
<lament> thud thud, thud thud
4107
<lament> and it's always the same beat
4108
<lament> it's not like it goes boom -kachink-chakachaka-boom!
4110
<hypatia> Oh well, as long as they aren't rapping in Andunaic...
4111
<dash> hypatia: actually
4112
<dash> hypatia: that would be kinda cool.
4113
<hypatia> dash: Impressive too, considering how small the known vocabulary is.
4114
<hypatia> Quenya or Sindarin would be doable.
4115
<hypatia> As long as you like rapping primarily about flowers, natural beauty and grief.
4117
<slyphon> what is Andunaic?
4118
<dash> slyphon: Adnaic is the language of Numenor.
4119
<slyphon> dash: is that in south-east-asia?
4121
<hypatia> The Noldor don't strike me as a very goth people, but, you know, maybe they've gotten with the times.
4122
<moshez> hypatia: like vampires, elves don't change
4123
<hypatia> moshez: They fade though. That's pretty goth.
4125
<exarkun> "packaged" doesn't mean easy to install or configure
4126
<exarkun> it means "comes in a pretty box carried by a guy in a $800 suit"
4128
<glyph> I agree that it would be huge amounts of fun to watch monkeys in $800 suits carrying big shiny boxes that say Twisted do a complicated ballet to the tune of "Money, Money, Money", so if you want to fund it, please send me the video tape
4130
<parks> ill take ASN.1 over XML any day
4132
<parks> blind bigoted hatred
4134
<itamar> exarkun: does it do screenshots of empty landscapes?
4135
<itamar> if not it is NOT BEGUN
4137
<dash> exarkun: radix is ruined for life i guess
4139
<radix> i will experience WONDROUS JOY for the rest of my life
4140
<exarkun> radix: of course you will
4141
<exarkun> you're only ruined from the perspective of sane people
4143
<moshez> fuckin' jew
4144
<slyphon> moshez: i think they like to be called 'the messiah-challenged' these days
4146
<cherub> yay Unspeakable Algebra
4147
<cherub> I assume the geometry associated with all of this involves strange many-dimensional paralleltopes which are an affront to reason, and through the corners of which unknowable evil seeps into our plane of existance
4149
<fzZzy> hmm. what happens if an interface inherits from another interface, and I try to adapt an object which declares it implements the subclass to the base class interface?
4150
<Jerub> the spacetime continuum will shatter, leaving only remnants of the previous inheritance tree to forge out an existance in the rubble of a former great civilisation.
4152
<glyph> moshez: Your interpretation of the human condition is, as always, colorful and, as always, wrong :)
4154
<moshez> glyph: I'm always polite
4156
<z3p> what is a good way to debug crazy errors in C modules?
4157
<Jerub> z3p: find -name "*.c" -exec rm {} \;
4159
<Jerub> extremists make middle ground exist.
4160
<glyph> Jerub: sometimes they salt the earth as they pass over the middle ground ;-)
4162
<gt3> i took a 2 month coding vacation and went soul searching
4163
<gt3> i collected a lot of souls..
4164
<dash> gt3: cool. what are you going to do with them?
4165
<gt3> sell em on ebay
4168
<dash> the mexican-flag thingy works like the editors at BYTE used to!
4170
<radix> "promgrenades"?!
4171
<radix> that sounds like some terrorist weapon that a high schooler thought up
4173
<chrchr> see man mount. see spot run.
4174
<slyphon> chrchr: as long as we don't see "man mount spot"
4176
<radix> exarkun: I am skeptical.
4177
<exarkun> radix: Go skeptate elsewhere!
4178
<exarkun> radix: You're harshing my buzz.
4180
<PenguinOfDoom> And the app sucks.
4181
<exarkun> what do I care if the app sucks!
4182
<PenguinOfDoom> Running sucky apps diminishes honor of your mother.
4184
<teratorn> everything tastes better with a little internet
4186
<slyphon> do you know what guido said about why python didn't have an optimizing native code compiler?
4187
<radix> he said "i like meatloaf"
4189
<fzZzy> why is the king in yellow paperback 20 bucks :(
4190
<glyph> fzZzy: I *seriously* hope you mean "The Yellow Sign" or something
4191
<glyph> fzZzy: if you found an actual copy of The King in Yellow, DON'T TALK ABOUT IT HERE
4193
<radix> haha! fear my bamboo stick
4194
<radix> thwap! swip! donk!
4196
<radix> itamar: yeah. stabbing in the forehead with a bamboo stick makes that sound.
4198
<dash> exarkun: CULTURAL OSMOSIS
4199
<Glammie> Perhaps the expression has percolated throughout a variety of social media without retaining the tag of its orig
4200
<Glammie> dash, jesus christ.. I just typed a whole sentence, and you say the same damn thing in 2 words. Damn you for your conciseness!
4201
<dash> Glammie: PERSPICACITY WOO
4203
<glyph> fzZzy: It always starts with one harmless little branch tag, and pretty soon, you've got a revision in each hand, and you're snorting crushed revisions off the ass of a 12 year old boy you call "revision"
4205
<MFen> i swear to god c programmers must do #include <buffer_overflow.h>
4206
* MFen upgrades his servers. again. hooray debian
4207
<exarkun> MFen: yes! except it's spelled <string.h>
4208
<exarkun> i think it's short for "... long embarassing string of security vulnerabilities ..."
4210
<saph_w> i think buildbot should be renamed vlad
4211
<saph_w> and be given scripts to talk about makeout sessions it's had
4213
<exarkun> all twisted has in the way of ipv6 support is Twisted/sandbox/exarkun/ipv6.py
4214
<exarkun> Which someone should rewrite as an internet newapp service and drop in a more useful location
4215
<glyph> exarkun: hum
4216
<glyph> exarkun: I suppose we should take our lead from DNS
4217
<glyph> exarkun: and add a function to the reactor called
4218
<glyph> listenTCPTCPTCPTCP
4220
<moshez> we can program in morse code
4221
<dash> moshez: will you release it under an Open Morse license?!@
4223
<mesozoic> fzZzy: uh... when you click "Read Next Message", and the entire things refreshes using JavaScript instead of simply opening another page, I think you're adding unneeded layers of complexity.
4224
<fzZzy> mesozoic: that's awesome!
4226
<mesozoic> fzZzy: it was the way the whole thing tied together. It was like GOTO graduated and became a design methodism for web applications.
4227
<fzZzy> there is no design methodology for web applications! that's the best part
4230
<dash> this channel is made of LOVE AND PEACE!!
4233
<glyph> dash: Well, I'll give you a hint. A certain UNIX vendor is going cross-country with an advertising campaign, and warner says he hasn't "been physically ejected from a conference in ages"
4234
-- warner and glyph plan a visit to a SCO Q&A session
4236
<MFen> huh. microsoft has a license _compiler_
4237
<MFen> i guess you need special tools to inject a program with pure evil
4239
<blanu> The waste sub-project was/is going to be IRC over Chord basically.
4240
<arma> will it be "invisible"? will it have a "2" in the name?
4242
<blanu> It will probably be rolled in crispy crust of crack though.
4244
<blanu> I figure if you're going to write a new chat system, you might as well be mostly insane about it.
4245
<blanu> Since it's doomed anyway.
4246
<arma> will it be deniable, at least?
4247
<blanu> No, I plan to take full responsibility for writing it even if it's silly. After all I wrote IRC over Freenet.
4249
<glyph> I want PB to be a service to rival HTTP, which means that it needs to be able to *do something* when you just type "pb.blahblah.com" and then slather enough drool on the enter key to depress it
4251
* slyphon has a roomate (best friend from high school) that is going for a degree in being a lazy no-job having mooch
4252
<slyphon> but in a loveable way
4254
<nazca> can anyone think of a good method of pursuding my college network admin that installing python and twisted on to the application server would be a Good Idea (tm)
4255
<radix> nazca: well, why do you need it? :)
4256
<nazca> i need it for working on software projects that eat more time than the college course ;) i'm not telling them that or they'll give me more work
4258
<saph> YES I AM A FEMALE
4259
<saph> FEAR MY BOOBIE POWER
4261
<grib> don't worry, I have a pentagram around my Aeron
4263
--> orangecat has joined #twisted
4264
<orangecat> I was just on my way to the bar to pick up some internet
4265
and wondered if everyone had enough enterprise. No facilitated
4266
client-based XML quality vector refills? Budweiser?
4267
<-- orangecat has left #twisted
4269
<etrepum> what are we plotting?
4270
<dash> etrepum: world domination
4272
<raph> imagine how many fewer problems we'd have if everybody on the planet was an asynchronous network protocol programmer
4273
<clausen> raph: I think everyone would starve :p
4275
<kiko> I had a friend who started accessing objects concurrently
4276
<kiko> he ended up in rehab with a triple X tatooed on his face
4278
<moshez> glyph is the leerless feeder!
4280
<exarkun> I'll go add <br> tags at the end of every line
4281
<exarkun> I think that is how you add spaces to HTML
4283
<Artimage> I believe a bar chart can confirm my humanity.
4285
<radix> moshez: you are very nice to me, and girls in general
4287
<radix> naked naked naked
4289
<dhess> has anyone written a blog application server in twisted?
4290
<dhess> i'm tempted to use plone but it's a little overly complicated for my needs
4292
* exarkun throws himself off a cliff
4294
<itamar> that was a wasted 30 minutes
4295
* itamar curses tenth's halloween special
4297
<exarkun> stay the hell away from my corpse
4299
<glyph> amiaaaaornot.com
4300
[the ipv6 equivalent of 'whatsmyip.com' -ed]
4302
<coderman> i think blanu disappeared
4304
<GabeW> does he have the ring?
4305
<coderman> is that a euphamism for the clap?
4306
<wmf> somehow I don't see AaronSw getting the clap
4307
<coderman> did aaron and blanu go somewhere? there is probably a big conference going on that im blissfuly clueless about like usual
4308
<GabeW> coderman: is this how blanu and AaronSw got the clap?
4310
<exarkun> it is hard not to think I am FUCKING INSANELY AWESOME when everything I do turns out so amazingly well
4312
<slyphon> YAY SEGFAULTING!
4313
* PenguinOfDoom is continually amazed at how a segfault is such a joyful occurence for Python programmers.
4314
<itamar> PenguinOfDoom: it is somewhat like seeing someone levitating and then kicking you in the face
4315
<itamar> it hurts, but at the same time you are distracted by the violation of your concept of reality
4317
<moshez> pfote: anthopomorphising is the most powerful weapon in the fight against complexity
4318
<glyph> moshez: don't you mean "anthropomorphism is the most powerful warrior in the fight against complexity"? :)
4319
<MFen> i prefer to simianize
4321
<moshez> glyph: I see your problem
4322
<moshez> glyph: you are trying to do impossible things
4323
<dash> moshez: nothing else is interesting
4324
<moshez> dash: perhaps! but impossible things are notoriously hard
4326
<phed> symbiont: you spot the flamewars as those neverending staircases of posts. and those who say something not flameable, as those with one or none replies.
4327
<phed> at the end of the staircase, hitler is mentioned.
4328
<symbiont> yes, hitler is always a component of flamewars
4329
<symbiont> can we encapsulate hitler in an xml document?
4330
<slyphon> he'll make sure all of your documents are only in pure german
4331
<symbiont> achtung baby!
4332
<slyphon> you could use it for mail, but then you'd just hear the chant over and over...
4338
<SamB> they should label crap "tragedy"
4339
<saph_w> no, they should label crap "crap"
4341
* aum sits back while mnet builds the kitchen sink, the earth, the heavens, the beasts of the land and the fowls of the air
4343
<anthony> anyone that would give out sexual favours to get access to an imap server... sheesh.
4345
<tmcvs> Commit from sjj (changed 2) in 2 subdirs of Twisted: "add copyright info" msn_example.py, test_msn.py
4346
<sjj> Now all I have to do is wait for them to deport glyph to syria.
4348
<ilikewine> that mp3 sounds like that band is from williamsburg
4349
<ilikewine> its an awful place
4350
<ilikewine> where everybody wears stripes
4352
<saph> i think the same drunken circus bears who taught radix to type taught him to drive
4354
<moshez> exarkun: the user can win by setting ulimit
4355
<moshez> exarkun: haha you lose
4357
<exarkun> The goal is not to defeat the user.
4358
<moshez> exarkun: what kind of screwed up software do you write?
4360
<radix> PenguinOfDoom: *you're* a jew too? goddamnit
4361
<radix> what is up with you people
4362
<PenguinOfDoom> radix: Only a halfjew!
4363
<PenguinOfDoom> radix: I get +5 racial bonus to antisemitism.
4364
<PenguinOfDoom> radix: It's like half-elves and whatever they do best, archery or something.
4366
<radix> someone should do a statistical analysis of the religions of Twisted developers
4367
<exarkun> Doesn't that cvs stats tool emit a graph for that?
4370
<fzZzy> do not stare into the xhtml
4371
<kwaker> it will make my eyes to pop
4372
<kwaker> and my wife to leave me
4373
<kwaker> and my hard drive to burn in flames
4376
<exarkun> Nagle is a little gnome who ships inside every TCP stack
4377
<exarkun> He grabs your sockets and squeezes them
4378
<exarkun> So the bits can't fit through
4379
<exarkun> Later, he lets go
4380
<exarkun> Turning off TCP_NODELAY hits Nagle with a sledge hammer.
4381
<exarkun> While he's unconscious, no one does the job of squeezing your sockets.
4383
<PenguinOfDoom> dash left me!
4384
<PenguinOfDoom> aaaaaaaa
4385
<itamar> PenguinOfDoom: there will be other men
4386
* PenguinOfDoom hits itamar with a brick.
4388
<saph_w> moshe: telling friends to read /. is like telling friends to go to radio shack
4390
<slyphon> spiv: hey look, if i had to maintain that crap ass protocol i'd be slacking too
4391
* slyphon suddenly has a horrible moment of clarity
4393
<frankie> smile! you are on-line at linux-day in italy!!!
4394
<frankie> say something nice, plz :)
4395
<aj> hello, this is the Debian Release Manager, please, please
4396
try a different distro! (arrrggh, the pressure, the pressure!)
4398
<PenguinOfDoom> exarkun: I have a desire to rearrange your internal organs in the way you rearrange words.
4399
<saph> PoD: please keep his kidneys out of his nose
4400
<PenguinOfDoom> saph: Why?
4401
<saph> PoD: because i don't want to have to explain it in the holiday cards!
4402
<PenguinOfDoom> saph: Okay.
4404
<zooko> I think there should be a "maybe" button next to "ok", "cancel" in all dialogs.
4405
<zooko> [okay] [cancel] [I'm not sure]
4406
<LotR> and the dialog would vanish and then reappear?
4407
<zooko> I'm not sure.
4409
<danfaust> What makes you a Superjew? Pork bounces off your chest?
4410
[See http://www.timeoutny.com/427.cover.html -ed]
4412
<jml> It is like wandering through the desert, for weeks, without a
4413
drop of water, but knowing that there is an oasis ahead. And all the
4414
time, I am being stabbed in the face with a blunt spoon by a flatulent
4416
-- jml describes PHP, after using nevow
4418
<crw> don't talk to teachers when you first wake up, it floods back all the crap you had to do in school.
4419
<crw> and if the conversation begins with "i'll give you three guesses to figure out who this is", just hang up on them and go back to sleep. :P
4421
<gus> "Je suis en train d'avoir les presqu'impossibles du travail"
4422
<gus> it means I CAN'T CONCENTRATE ON MY RESEARCH
4424
<MFen> give me correctness or give me death
4425
<glyph> MFen: I wouldn't say that, standing so close to a windows machine.
4427
<PenguinOfDoom> Grr. Python saps my will to write software. Anything I'd want to write is either boring, impossible or already written.
4429
<AccorDNGuy> You know, my academic career would've been more interesting if I'd answered my exams with porn stories.
4430
<AccorDNGuy> "Explain AVL Trees." "Winer undid his zipper, casting a longing glance at Dvorak, who returned his smouldering gaze. There was going to be some serious pole-smoking tonight."
4432
<dash> radix: are you jewish yet?
4433
<radix> dash: Not yet
4434
<dash> radix: me neither! what's taking so long
4436
<slyphon> then I'm the happiest loser in the phone book!
4438
* lebowski was talking to a guy in the pub the other night who once got stopped by a gang in NI
4439
<lebowski> "Are you a catholic or a protestant?" they asked
4440
<lebowski> "Er... neither, I'm an athiest"
4441
<lebowski> "... Aye, but are you a catholic athiest or a protestant atheist?"
4443
<maciej> wow. Spam with ex-girlfriend's name.
4444
<maciej> that extra little twist-o-the-knife
4445
<maciej> "my ex is suddenly writing.... and she wants to increase my WHAT?"
4447
<lapsly> dash has the coolest hat
4448
<lapsly> he looked like a pimp walkin around chinatown
4450
<maciej> I like to save my timidity for actual human interaction, where it belongs
4452
<exarkun> usecrack: --compiler
4454
<slyphon> has anyone thought about a squid-like caching-proxy server thingy for twisted?
4455
<`anthony> slyphon: what, hideously complex, consuming enormous amounts of resources, and buggy as fuck? Not particularly.
4456
<`anthony> Or do you mean instead slimy with long tentacles
4458
<maciej> I almost took my cat to the vet for a strange skin condition before my girlfriend reminded me cats are mammals
4460
<itamar> sex is not digital, it is analog
4462
* warner wishes for the zillionth time that he could just grep his closet
4464
<dash> isn't it cute?
4465
<spiv> dash: Cute like a baby choking on an ice-cream cone that's been rammed down it's throat.
4466
<dash> spiv: "frees up your hands from holding the ice cream cone, but leaves the bottom soggy"?
4468
<itamar> is there a libmandelbrot?
4469
<exarkun> itamar: people who write re-usable software don't spend years hand-tuning a 6 instruction inner loop!
4470
<exarkun> And vice versa
4472
<shawn> the highest calling of technical book writers is to destroy the sun
4474
<hypatia> Why does dirdbm exist, exactly?
4475
<spiv> hypatia: Because glyph is trigger-happy when it comes to writing persistence systems.
4476
<spiv> "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a persistence system out of my hat!"
4477
<spiv> "But that trick never works!"
4478
<spiv> "This time for *sure*!"
4480
<_joshua> From what I can tell, there are two kinds of interviewers: ones that ask a bunch of silly questions, you answer them, they take one bad quote and make you look bad
4481
<_joshua> and the other ones that engage in a long dialogue, discuss back and forth, really understand what's going on
4482
<_joshua> and then take one bad quote and make you look bad
4484
<exarkun> today's lesson
4485
<exarkun> don't strace X in an xterm
4487
<glyph> exarkun: any thoughts on what to do about actions having consequences?
4489
<Pahan> glyph: I have no time for your Zen crap! I have hardware to burn.
4491
<symbiont> been doing industrial C for three years
4493
<slyphon> i learned python about 2 years ago and all of my C skillz have left me
4494
<symbiont> yeah, it's all a hack
4496
<saph> dash: when did you get a day job
4497
<saph> dash: i thought you just taught dancing and sold trinkets as part of a band of traveling cyber gypsies
4498
<dash> i only teach dancing to beautiful women
4501
<_joshua> perhaps we could have some sort of sacrificial goat technology where people decide collectively that someone absolutely must get laid
4502
<tangra> for the good of the state
4503
<tangra> kind of like the draft lottery
4505
<itamar> jml: the Sex Pistols have no songs about Hillary Clinton
4506
<jml> itamar: an unfortunate accident of history
4508
<dash> Demoscene? wasn't he a greek philosopher
4510
<slyphon> dammit! my upstream just sucks
4511
<slyphon> 20 kb/sec!
4512
<slyphon> if i'm lucky!
4513
<exarkun> install an optimization
4515
<slyphon> ifconfig eth0 --don't-suck-upstream up??
4517
<radix> I bit my finger
4518
<exarkun> radix: Yay
4519
<radix> and it hurt real bad
4520
<Riastradh> radix, um, why did you bite your finger?
4521
<radix> Cuz it was holding a waffle
4522
<exarkun> radix: Hahaha
4524
<exarkun> radix: Awesome
4525
<radix> I bit it really, really hard
4526
<Riastradh> radix, does your finger really look that much like a waffle that you bit your finger instead of the waffle?
4527
<radix> I had to lie down afterwards
4528
<radix> Riastradh: no, i wasn't looking at it at the time
4529
<radix> Riastradh: I was busy stuffing it into my mouth
4531
<itamar> glyph: did you see the multiplayer go written with twisted?
4532
<exarkun> itamar: *massively* multiplayer!
4534
<itamar> only like three people in the whole world play Go
4536
<exarkun> I mean, uh, her character has many unresolved personal issues that she projects onto other people around her without reason.
4537
<glyph> exarkun: that sounds like pretty much all TV people
4538
<exarkun> Gumby never took out his unresolved personal issues on Pokey
4539
<glyph> you don't think so?
4540
<glyph> I thought that Pokey's whole _life_ was gumby's unresolved personal issues
4541
<glyph> like this memorable sequence:
4542
<exarkun> Well, they were always friendly enough on camera
4543
<glyph> gumby: HAHA STUPID QUADRUPED
4544
<glyph> pokey: shut up! I hate you!
4545
<glyph> gumby: FOUR LEGS FOUR LEGS, WHERE ARE YOUR HANDS HAHA
4546
<exarkun> glyph: I think I missed that episode.
4547
<glyph> pokey: one day you will be hurt by someone close to you the same way!
4548
<dash> exarkun: i think glyph watched tv in an alternate universe
4549
<exarkun> dash: That seems likely!
4550
<glyph> exarkun: it was right before pokey got a cameo on NYPD Blue
4552
<slyphon> but then again my temple is so reform it's called "Our Lady of the Immaculate Livingroom"
4554
<mcunixjr> i was sitting downstairs, and my 2.5 yr old was sitting next to me, she has the Flu, 102 temp
4555
<mcunixjr> she turns to me and says "i dont feel good"
4556
<mcunixjr> and at the last word, out came dinner
4557
<mcunixjr> onto my lap
4558
<mcunixjr> and onto my Powerbook 12"
4560
--> foom (~jknight@128.52.220.152) has joined #twisted
4561
<-- Moof (~moof@horus.kaotix.co.uk) has left #twisted
4563
<maciej> Poles are wondering why they are paying millions of $$ out of pocket to occupy Iraq on behalf of the US, and not seeing the slightest benefit
4564
<markp> i believe the benefit is that we'll bump you down a few notches on the list of "countries we'll invade next"
4565
<brkchrmr> Doesn't Poland get a +5 to be invaded on every roll? ;)
4567
<MFen> i'm sorry, but does this scream DANGER DANGER WARNING to you? "e"
4568
<MFen> no it does not. but a big floating eyeball does!
4569
<exarkun> MFen: you obviously lack an adventurers keen senses!
4570
<exarkun> "e" strikes the deepest terror into my heart.
4572
<exarkun> speak of the devil
4573
<moshez> exarkun: froor
4576
<jml> are there any really really good wysiwyg (or close) HTML editors?
4577
<jml> I mean, amazingly good, XHTML-spewing editors.
4578
<radix> hahaha!@!@!R!A@!@!@!@!@!#@$!#*
4579
>>> radix stabs software
4580
<jml> radix: a man can dream
4581
<radix> jml: your question fills me with burning rage
4582
<jml> radix: why is this?
4583
<radix> jml: i hate web
4584
<Jerub> radix: you are in #twisted.web
4586
<radix> Jerub: that is why I am FULL OF RAGE
4588
<KevinMarks> 'Our series A round is to help us build out the Other Plane; look at the returns possible once we transcend the mortal universe'
4590
<maciej> It strikes me that Cthulhu can only effect change by altering the order things are eaten in
4591
<maciej> just like Alan Greenspan can only raise or lower interest rates
4593
* Suw has never seen a wall mounted cat.
4594
<maciej> Suw: give me ten minutes and a stapler and I'll show you
4595
<Suw> maciej: like to see you try that trick with Fflwff
4596
<maciej> twenty minutes and a staple gun
4597
<Suw> maciej: you haven't seen her claws...
4598
<maciej> thirty minutes, asbestos gloves, and a hydraulic nail gun
4599
<Suw> maciej: asbestos gloves? that would never cut it. she'd be at your jugular before you could say 'argh'.
4600
<maciej> forty minutes, a torniquet, and a double-wide roll of duct tape
4601
<Suw> maciej: she's way too slippery for that.
4602
<maciej> fifty minutes and a large sheet of Velcro
4603
<Suw> maciej: ok, that might work
4605
<Nafai> Sheesh. Why is downloading stuff so hard?
4606
<exarkun> try typing in real credit card numbers
4608
<saph_b> radix: minnesotans invented the frozen pizza
4609
<radix> saph_b: i love minnesotans
4612
<exarkun> A channel even more fascist than #python
4613
<exarkun> == kick exarkun off #hurd by neal (Rule #1 of 1: no nodding)
4615
<ivan> i'm almost done rewriting python in python
4616
<ivan> i can't believe it took those pypy guys years
4618
<REDROBOT> MEET MY SECOND COUSIN 'ONHOLDTONE'
4620
<`anthony> I think I shall refer to Guido as "Tallest" from now on.
4621
<`anthony> I'm not sure who Zim would be. Maybe Ping.
4622
[Referring to http://pycon.org/images/mastheadphohtos2.jpg]
4624
<radix> code is for grunts, not software architects
4625
<jml> architects are merely coders without keyboards
4626
<radix> yes, lacking keyboards is a sign of prestige
4627
* jml throws his keyboard at radix
4628
<jml> I am prestigous
4630
<exarkun> I have a gig of ram, after all
4631
<exarkun> and other people are below my threshhold of attention
4633
<mingus> pynfo: kick exarkun for abuse of power
4634
<pynfo> You aren't allowed to do that.
4636
<PenguinOfDoom> So wait, oekaki is also some stupid Java applet that crashes
4638
<PenguinOfDoom> I think it probably has builtin tools for drawing anime boobs.
4640
<mingus> emacs is /da-bomb/
4641
<mingus> it's exactly all the things i wanted vim to be but never was
4642
<glyph> mingus: the sad part is, it's exactly all the things bram wanted vim to be but never was; vim is the trophy of ignorance's triumph over laziness
4643
<glyph> but hey, it's, uh, faster to start
4645
<dash> slyphon: sure, but this has happened before
4646
<slyphon> dash: when?
4647
<symbiont> glyph: such as the working people paying off debt
4648
<slyphon> dash: and how many vetoes
4649
<dash> slyphon: dagnab it
4650
<dash> slyphon: you're harshing my rhetorical buzz
4651
<slyphon> dash: you have taught me well
4653
<dash> hracht! i gotta stop teaching you stuff.
4655
<slyphon> why is it that when women get pms and they give you a hard time about nothing that the _LAST_ thing on _EARTH_ you can suggest to them is that they might be the teensiest, weensiest bit on edge because they have PMS?
4656
<Yosomono> slyphon: Because you are basically telling them that their feelings are the result of chemical imbalance, and therefore unimportant.
4657
<slyphon> BUT THEY ARE!
4658
<saph_w> slyphon: because it belittles what they're feeling to being simply a hormonal response
4659
<Yosomono> slyphon: Good luck buddy.
4661
<MFen> i think i've finally become an abstronaut
4662
<MFen> i'm able to break source into its fundamental abstractinos
4663
<MFen> pretty soon i'll be writing a mud engine just so i can rewrite it again from scratch
4665
<dash> what the heck, i think i pushed the wrong button in emacs
4666
<dash> "Pinging loginfo.py (Paraguay)..."
4668
<symbiont> btw, i've noticed that the word "federated" is not in the Twisted source tree, should i file a roundup on this issue?
4670
<saph_w> i suppose he would have to find a good contact to the underground prior to his cat transformation so he can purchase a wig there
4672
<cyli> Is Michael Eisner Trent Eisner's son?
4673
[Since people keep asking about this one, say it slowly:
4674
Trent Reznor. Trent rEznor. Trent Eizner. Get it? -ed]
4676
<Yosomono> You guys need to stream pycon online.
4677
<dash> Yosomono: all the other people trying to use the wifi would hate us
4678
<Yosomono> dash: It should be a standard feature of the con.
4679
<dash> Yosomono: Maybe so.
4680
<Yosomono> dash: This is the year 2004 for cripesake.
4681
<saph_w> Yosomono: maybe the japs should give us our fucking flying cars, then we'll talk about streaming video!
4683
<jml> there's a book out called 'implementing CIFS'
4684
<jml> anyone want to buy it for me?
4685
<exarkun> why didn't they just implement CIFS and sell a CD containing the implementation?
4686
<jml> because people like me would re-implement it anyway
4688
<lemonodor> it's canadian, you know.
4689
<lemonodor> er, i mean, written in lisp.
4691
* radix sads at spacelessness
4692
<moshez> radix: don't sad
4693
<moshez> radix: happy at contentfulness
4695
<phobos> but like, when you were 16-22, (maybe you still are), most sexual contact you obtained was through just 'hooking up', i.e. meeting someone at a party, stoned and/or drunk, and doing things for the night only, right?
4696
<maciej> phobos: no, most sexual contact I obtained was with myself
4697
<maciej> and that was a long-term relationship
4699
* radix remembers twisted.web.html.Interface, feels nostalgia
4700
<radix> wait, no. that's not nostalgia, that's horror
4702
<exarkun> chrchr: A great man once called cotton the fabric of our lives. Is that not more important than the fabric of our society?
4703
<exarkun> chrchr: For what is society without livelyhood?
4706
<saph> what is gentoo again?
4708
<MFen> exceptions.ImportError No module named win32com.gen_py.565783C6-CB41-11D1-8B02-00600806D9B6x0x1x2
4709
<czth> i wouldn't name a _dog_ win32com.gen_py.565783C6-CB41-11D1-8B02-00600806D9B6x0x1x2
4711
<etrepum> Jokes around here tend to get followed by implementations.
4713
<dreid> jml: i thought warner wanted to be a Problem object that can be passed via jelly
4715
<chrchr> PenguinOfDoom: Also, what non-sucky HTTP server? What would you use, besides twisted.web?
4716
<glyphG4> chrchr: roxen!
4717
<chrchr> glyphG4: Roxen? Really??
4718
<glyphG4> chrchr: no, not really
4719
<glyphG4> chrchr: I write all my own crap so I don't have to deal with questions like this
4721
<radix> INSTALL says that panda will take 1-2 hours to compile
4723
<dash> c++, it gives you free time!
4725
<PenguinOfDoom> omfg yes, another weapon to stab radix when he claims that X is useful.
4726
<dash> PenguinOfDoom: what's useful-er
4728
<MFen> and a rotor to display them very quickly
4730
<KevinMarks> I really like that unicode has a code point for 'snowman with a hat on'
4732
<moshez> but yes, theoretically Ogg could replace tar :)
4733
<MFen> you could have subtitles while you're untarring
4734
<MFen> "Look! another directory!"
4736
<redheadatwork> Well, our seder consists mainly of the four questions, which I do twice (once the real ones, once a set I make up on the fly), and a lot of food. Sometimes a song.
4737
<redheadatwork> And an orange on the seder plate.
4738
<furan> Before you you see:
4739
<furan> An orange on a cedar plate.
4741
<furan> You cannot take the orange. It is firmly fastened to the cedar plate.
4743
<furan> You successfully take the cedar plate.
4744
<furan> #joiito: the adventure game
4745
<furan> "now with graphics!"
4747
<Suw> oh, i'm having problems thinking in english.
4748
<Suw> i keep wanting ot type in welsh instead
4749
<ChrisDodo> pobol y cwm?
4751
<Suw> dw i'm yn edrych pobol y cwm
4753
* ChrisDodo turns on english subtitles
4754
<jeanniecool> "probably you'll come?"
4756
<jeanniecool> "duh I'm probably about ready to come"
4757
<jeanniecool> "catch yo daddy"
4759
<shiruken> welsh is such a beautiful language
4761
<cablehead> who would win in a fight between a lion and a monkey ( with a bag of rocks )
4762
<dash> that's boring
4763
<dash> ask who would win in a fight between a monkey and a pirate
4764
<exarkun> that's boring
4765
<exarkun> ask who would win in a fight between a pirate monkey and a bag of lions
4767
<dash> i am trying to get Asterisk to work
4768
<dash> it is stabbing me in the face
4769
<dreid> yes ... i seem to recall that feature in the documentation
4773
<radix> the proper solution is to use an alternative implementation of time
4775
<radix> So, I guess the reason you chose ftp as a discovery protocol is because it's a semi-ubiquitous anonymous protocol that allows people to communicate?
4776
<edsuom> No, because I was stupid
4778
<riptor> flashback to 1945, nazi makes portal (how? who cares), demon pops out, us troops find demon, give it a candybar, name it hellboy <- plot
4780
<dash> i think i want to implement simulacrum in common lisp
4783
<dash> i know i know
4784
<dash> it's a personal problem
4785
<dash> but therapy is expensive
4787
<warner> although.. actually several of my projects are violently battling for the dubious honor of being the least likely to turn into cash
4789
<PenguinOfDoom> saph: What did you write to your mom?
4790
<saph> PenguinOfDoom: about being happy that she's home fine from the hospital and how i feel lucky she's ok and stuff
4791
<saph> PenguinOfDoom: and i told her that her bonsai will eventually give fruit, but i don't know if she can eat it
4792
<itamar> saph: is that a metaphor for grandchildren?
4794
<MFen> exarkun: my brain is the size of a pickup truck
4797
<slyphon> MFen: that's nothin, Jesus built my hot rod!
4800
<radix> satan *is* my motor!
4802
<MFen> radix: you HAVE been practicing!
4804
<Logan> Although I'm fighting for it, my boss thinks the customer wants it done in C++ or, even worse, Java.
4805
<Logan> But I told him it'd quadruple the cost. :P
4806
<PenguinOfDoom> Logan: What does the customer care, anyway?
4807
<Logan> PenguinOfDoom: That's what I said. It's like dictating what brand of toothpaste your plumber brushes his teeth with.
4809
<radix> A VoIP server "powered entirely by stabbing, that I made out of this gun I had"
4811
<exarkun> I can't tell if HP-UX sucks /even more/ than last time I used it or if somehow my terminal settings are causing non-deterministic behavior
4812
<exarkun> For example!
4813
<exarkun> T.................................................................................SSSS........Changing password for jcalder9 on NIS server
4814
<exarkun> Old NIS password:
4815
<exarkun> I hit <enter> and the tests proceeded
4816
<exarkun> Do we call passwd in our tests or something? :)
4818
<itamar> 22 bugs and I'm a free man
4819
<PenguinOfDoom> A slave contract under an entymologist?
4821
<slyphon> slyphon: mock mock mock
4822
<PenguinOfDoom> slyphon: Did you grab the wrong end of a mockery gun?
4824
<PenguinOfDoom> Being enlightened gentlemen, we split all programming languages into two groups, sucks and doesn't-suck and put all of them into the first group.
4826
<itamar> what are you going to do at cisco?
4827
<exarkun> rot and die, I bet
4828
<PenguinOfDoom> itamar: IOS debuggery.
4831
<SamB> what do interfaces do when you call them? is that even allowed?
4832
<exarkun> welcome to the year 1973.
4833
<exarkun> callable interfaces roam the surface of the earth
4834
<exarkun> humanity has fled underground
4836
<dash> consumption does not create wealth, production does
4837
<dash> people in China have noticed this, people in America have not
4838
<moshez> consumption is good
4839
<moshez> dash: creating wealth is not an intristic value
4840
<dash> moshez: being naked, cold, hungry, and defenseless isn't either
4841
<dash> moshez: but if you don't create wealth, you will be those things!
4842
<moshez> dash: are you naked ?
4843
<moshez> dash: wait, that came out wrong
4846
<moshez> anyone adds this to quotes, I hunt you down and kill you
4848
* kev wonders if having people checking output by eye counts as a valid unit test
4849
<MFen> if you can attach electrodes to them and force them to do it every time
4850
<exarkun> and they have to turn red when it fails
4852
<RemyWork> http://web.archive.org/web/20030608082636/http://www.movabletype.org/commercial_license.shtml
4853
<RemyWork> I love having to use the wayback machine to see what my rights are
4855
<exarkun> I suspect the performance of this irrelevant task is highly sensitive to implementation decisions
4857
<radix> I just downloaded the fruitiest anime ever
4858
<radix> it's .. girly
4859
<radix> it's about a girl's school, and about a "sister" system between upperclassmen and lowerclassmen, and .. and... *twitch*
4860
<radix> there isn't any hitting!
4862
<mwh> i wonder if i should post an "are you serious" comment
4863
<radix> mwh: that's a lot nicer than the comment I was thinking up
4864
<radix> which was something along the lines of "Holy shit, I'm sick of the horrible crap that's showing up in this God-forsaken cookbook."
4866
<mamamusings> grades are due by saturday
4867
<mamamusings> that means i have to at least pretend to evaluate them
4868
<crw> i KNEW teachers talked like this when students weren't around :P
4869
<mamamusings> hell, i talk like this when they *are* around
4870
<mamamusings> it's good to be tenured
4872
<moshez> On January 8th, 1977, Amber Nicole Benson came into this world -- more
4873
<moshez> specifically, she was born in Birmingham, Alabama.
4874
<radix> who the heck is she, anyway?
4875
<moshez> radix: you know what's shocking? technically, you and I share the same universe
4876
<radix> moshez: I fight to make that untrue every day
4878
*** warner has joined channel #twisted
4879
<glyph> warner: newpb!
4880
<kenaan> Twisted: warner * r10709 sandbox/warner/ (10 files): revamp exceptions, remote calls kinda work now
4882
<glyph> see everybody? now _that_ is the kind of response I like
4884
<exarkun> it's really too bad people live so long
4885
<exarkun> and that it is generally considered immoral to experiment on them
4887
<Tv> I want an incrimental knifi.
4888
<exarkun> Able to slice multiple things simultaneously without making its user interface non-responsive!?
4889
<exarkun> SUCH A THING SURELY COULD NOT EXIST
4890
<Tv> exarkun: Yeah, except it would a poor weapon, because it COULD NOT BLOCK!
4892
<SamB> few people know the secret of growing donuts
4894
<hypatia> I distrust projects that require you to socialise with the developers in order to learn how to use them.
4896
<radix> well hey, I'm getting back on sane schedule
4897
<radix> I'll probably stay up until about 5pm today
4899
<spiv> I am confident some people should be made to feel pain, itamar's possible insanity notwithstanding.
4901
<dash> for some reason i keep putting off becoming an alcoholic
4903
<itamar> if I got a cookie for every day I didn't work
4904
<itamar> I'd be radix
4906
-!- itamar2 [~itamar@pool-162-83-253-243.ny5030.east.verizon.net] has joined #twisted
4908
<dash> who left the robot clone factory switched on
4910
<markp> copy editors can blow me
4912
<itamar> the question is
4913
<itamar> do I *really* need five more tshirts with monkeys on them
4915
<`anthony> Yah, yah, debian has advantages, but their glacial release cycle is not good.
4916
<Jerub> if you want me to go around aj's house and kneecap him, my paypal account is stephen@thorne.id.au
4918
<moshez> dash: greet me into the 21st century!!
4919
<dash> moshez: it has been the 21st century here for a while! did .il daylight savings just kick in?
4921
<dash> brb fighting pirates
4924
<dash> er i mean, twisted.lore
4926
<mattcamp> Anybody know why twisted.protocols.toc is deprecated?
4927
<exarkun> because the toc protocol itself is deprecated
4928
<dash> is TOC really deprecated?
4929
<dash> %google deprecated TOC AIM
4930
<pynfo> deprecated TOC AIM: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/api/twisted.protocols.toc.TOCClient.html
4931
<dash> google is now useless
4933
<itamar> I bet simulating glyph wouldn't be hard
4934
<itamar> "We just make a <noun> that will <verb> the <other noun>! it will be awesome! I can do it in a week!"
4936
<PenguinOfDoom> slyphon: I am torn between going to Quizno's to buy a sub and brutally murdering you.
4938
* slyphon thinks red hat should change it's motto to, "Eh, it's good enough"
4940
<radix> facts are awesome
4942
<PenguinOfDoom> You pigfuckers are sitting there, staring at me with etrade.com open, waiting for JUICY INSIDER INFO
4943
<exarkun> I use ameritrade.
4945
<dash> dizzyd: yeah, i got bored of that whole college thing after a while
4946
<dash> so i graduated
4948
<jimbug> You know, I would knock the curses author over the head if he didn't invent rogue.
4950
<glyph> exarkun: you could just write a C module that would do all that ugly dl module crud
4951
<exarkun> glyph: yea, but then I'd have to write a C module
4952
<exarkun> Py_Incref in Python is neat, I think :)
4953
<glyph> exarkun: that guy who wrote pyrex is spinning in his grave, and he isn't even dead
4955
<morning> yes, but i almost wrote a book on orthogonal persistence, until i realized i couldn't spell it.
4957
<radix> ayn rand had sex?
4959
<glyph> I am going up through levels of abstraction so fast, reading from top to bottom, I am worried about getting the bends
4961
--- iratsu gives channel operator status to dash glyph rev_bot
4962
--- Users on #ddb: @glyph @rev_bot @dash @iratsu
4963
<iratsu> yay communism
4965
<exarkun> I don't think I even knew what XML was the last time I used DOS EDIT.
4967
<slyphon> wtf is NIH?
4971
<`anthony> slyphon: tla for Not Invented Here.
4972
<orbitz> slyphon: Nice Illegal Honey
4974
<Tv> slyphon: that's not a tla!
4975
<Tv> saying something is a tla implies "go look up it up in the standard places"
4976
<orbitz> Don't Upset him
4977
<Tv> orbitz: Your Honey is a him?
4979
<orbitz> Tv: honey you eat!
4982
<dialtone> I can even run python on my clock
4983
<dialtone> and my watch
4984
<dialtone> and have my watch sync with my clock
4985
<exarkun> what time is it right now
4986
<dialtone> don't have my watch on right now
4988
<e> birthday paradox cake
4989
<exarkun> e: Is that the paradox where, if you have more than 30 people in a room, they'll eat your birthday cake?
4991
<saph_w> my shirt has a moose
4992
<radix> family channel
4994
<saph_w> moose moose mooose
4995
<radix> jesus fucking H you've got a mouth on you
4997
<Nafai> A coworker saw my machine once; I was using the Apple II xscreensaver with the Twisted Quotes as the source
4998
<Nafai> He asked, "Is that glyph's screensaver?"
5000
<MFen> actually, #python kinda makes sense
5002
<Yosomono> why does every discussion of survival of the fittest end with hitler?
5003
<Yosomono> goddamn nazis have ruined everything
5005
<saph> PenguinOfDoom: you sap energy from people with evil eye rays
5006
<saph> you are all e_e----------
5007
<saph> and the other person is :o
5008
<saph> and then they are -_-
5009
<saph> and you are ^_^
5011
<glyph> people would just roll dice all the time in chat rooms
5012
<glyph> for *no reason*
5013
<glyph> because it was a feature of the system that was added for RPG players
5014
<glyph> and the dice-rolling syntax was pretty involved
5015
<glyph> infinitely involved, actually
5016
<glyph> it was a complete RainMan interpreter
5017
<glyph> you could backdoor the whole goddamn system with the dice roller
5018
<glyph> user: "I'd like to roll some very big dice"
5019
<glyph> system: "sure, maybe you would like an admin console and some dev tools to help you manage them"
5021
<faisal> [sushi is] one of the 3 essential food groups for the networking community
5022
<kiad> what are the other two?
5023
<faisal> sushi, caffeine, ietf drafts (for fiber)
5025
<radix> oh no the galaxies
5026
<radix> they're going to collide :(
5027
<radix> BUT PHYSICS SAVES THE DAY
5029
<dash> there is some law of thermodynamics that says you can't pump all the stupid into one container and expect it to stay there
5030
<dash> diffusion, or something
5031
<exarkun> we need a membrane
5032
<glyph> a membrane with a gun
5034
<Cerin> and I thought mono was an up and coming technology
5035
<capnSTABN> your sister gave me mono
5036
<Cerin> she is pretty tech savvy
5038
<radix> My computer is gone :-(
5039
<exarkun> radix: ono!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5040
<exarkun> radix: wait
5042
<exarkun> radix: I am suspicious.
5044
<exarkun> radix: Well, let's see
5045
<exarkun> radix: LOOKTHEREYOUARE
5047
<foom> wait when was the earth created?
5048
<flophouse> just look at the expiration date
5049
<flophouse> it's on the bottom, under the ice cap
5051
<warner> at a touchscreen voting platform, nobody knows if you're a dog..
5053
<Tv> thomasvs: why not just talk some authentication protocol to the other host?
5054
<thomasvs> Tv: why use something arcane and difficult when I have THE POWER OF TWISTED ?
5056
<brian_> I'm pretty sure from twisted import __version__ will work
5057
<slyphon> or i guess you could do that
5058
<brian_> I import dictionaries
5059
<slyphon> really? do you have to declare them in customs?
5060
<dash> slyphon: You are an inspiration to me
5061
<dash> slyphon: the next language I will design will have an alternative to the import statement
5062
<dash> slyphon: 'smuggle'
5063
<MFen> dash: no, that should be your execfile replacement
5064
<dash> from america.south smuggle guns, drugs, dictionaries
5068
<MFen> why is programming so *hard*
5069
<radix> because you try to do it on windows
5070
<MFen> radix: that is because i already beat the end guy on unix
5072
<exarkun> If I can make just one person blow chunks, I'm doing my job right.
5074
<itamar> our manager was looking for you
5075
<coworker_home> oh? just now?
5076
<itamar> I think he got your cell# off someone though
5078
<coworker_home> ah. good thing my cell is dead
5079
(Names changed to protect the innocent - Ed.)
5081
<warner> huh. this one proposition is funded by large corporations on one side, and 204 lawyers on the other
5082
<glyph> warner: wait - proposition? are you IRCing from inside a voting booth?
5083
<glyph> those new diebold machines must be awesome
5085
<Karnaugh> my attempt at implementing Ramanujan went horribly wrong
5086
<Vhata> because Python isn't the best language for reincarnating tubercular indians?
5088
<Vhata> maybe I should write my own operating system, where you CAN write to sockets
5089
<Vhata> my operating system will have beer and hookers, too
5090
<Vhata> in fact, screw the sockets
5092
<dash> mmm, ken macleod
5093
<dash> if I had a "People I Would Be Most Likely To Engage in Apocalyptic Anime-Style Battle With" list, he would be #1 on it
5095
<glyph> I am going to break with tradition and make one rule here
5096
<glyph> as long as I'm still active, nobody say anything supportive of Bush
5098
<chrchr> scout^2: Give us a fact that ties Iraq to 9/11 and you will not be kicked.
5099
<scout^2> well shit man.. if its gonna come down to that..
5100
<-- scout^2 has quit ("www.twistedmatrix.com, www.kwikdeath.com")
5101
[Note the instant quit when *facts* entered the discussion.]
5103
<hypatia> spiv: get the tshirt. "Beats me, I'm an arch user." Good for all manner of situations.
5104
<spiv> hypatia: With a companion shirt "Beat me, I'm an arch developer" ;)
5106
<orbitz> radix: do you know what it's like to be a team player?
5107
<radix> orbitz: No. I hate you.
5109
<orbitz> radix: well i'm a team player
5110
<orbitz> so i hate me too
5112
<blanu> arma: What's bamboo?
5113
<arma> blanu: some guy named sean rhea from berkeley has been pimping it on p2p-hackers
5114
<blanu> What's the interesting thing about it?
5115
<arma> blanu: apparently it works.
5116
<arma> blanu: seems pretty novel to me. :)
5118
<tjs> I want to know
5119
<tjs> why are my pants a topic of conversation?
5121
<glyph> How was your sunday? Relax at all?
5122
<exarkun> I played _Silent Hill_ most of the day
5123
<exarkun> On the one hand, you could say that is relaxing
5124
<exarkun> On the other hand, no, no you can't
5126
<arg> argh, my wife calls to complain about her mother while im in the
5127
middle of trying to understand someone elses metaclasses
5129
<Moof> I'm tryign to compile pyopenssl
5130
<Moof> but there's a syntax error in Python.h
5131
<mwh> this seems unlikely, on the face of it
5133
<vit--> dash, do you have any recommendations for python jabber libraries?
5134
<dash> vit--: kill yourself now
5136
<orbitz> once i found two people having MUSH sex though
5139
<orbitz> scared for life
5140
<orbitz> the yellow font burned into my soul
5142
<exarkun> radix: Are you ready to get a tummy host yet?
5143
<Tv> tummy hosting is that thing the Jaffa do in Stargate, right?
5145
<dialtone> my monitor can do Mhz
5146
<dialtone> in horizontal refresh though
5147
<exarkun> dialtone: hey that gives me an awesome idea
5148
<exarkun> I am going to turn my monitor on its side
5150
<tjs> jml: You are going to die one day.
5152
<tjs> And when you die, part of what makes up your being is the knowledge of how
5154
<tjs> I don't have that problem.
5156
<chrchr> exarkun: Note that all kryptonite locks are vulnerable to hacksaws.
5157
<exarkun> chrchr: That's why I have another lock too.
5158
<exarkun> chrchr: How many thieves carry around _two_ hacksaws?
5162
PHP EQUALITY -- An experiment:
5168
Kragen Sitaker: sub f{grep{(1x$_)!~/^(11+)\1+$/}2..pop}
5169
Itamar: that looks scary
5170
Kragen Sitaker: the haskell version is just as short and nearly as opaque
5171
Kragen Sitaker: but even more inefficient!
5173
<exarkun> it's not drugs, it's ubuntu
5175
<arg> i think a significant percentage of twisted apps begin as the logbot example
5176
<chrchr> Twisted is a fantastic framework for building logbots.
5178
<mumak> hmm. I think my flatmate is asleep.
5179
<Brend> You should take this opportunity to glue all the furniture to the ceiling
5180
<mumak> Brend: well, I have to live here too
5181
<mumak> Brend: and besides, I'm on holidays. That sounds like too much work.
5182
<Brend> If you just glue your flatmate to the ceiling, you achieve the same thing with less work, and no impedence to yourself!
5183
<mumak> you present a strong and compelling case
5184
<mumak> however, I think my flatmate wouldn't appreciate it.
5185
<Brend> Anyone who can't see the value of being glued to the ceiling deserves punishment by ceiling-glue
5187
<MFen> i bet i could beat him at football though
5188
<MFen> or shoe tying
5189
<MFen> i'd kick his ass at shoe tying
5190
<MFen> and then when i was done tying my shoes i stand up and shout IN YOUR FACE. IN YOUR FACE, PI BOY. SEE THESE SHOES? NOT COMING OFF. WHO'S THE SAVANT NOW BITCH?
5191
<MFen> and do a little dance
5192
<MFen> i bet he can't dance either
5194
<glyph> kevc: are you volunteering to maintain it, hmmmmm? :)
5195
<kevc> heh, no, I have no time free at present
5196
<glyph> kevc: TOO LATE
5197
* glyph slaps the manacles on kevc
5198
<kevc> glyph: last time someone played "tag you're it" on me, I ended up
5199
running some uni computing project for three years
5200
<kevc> went to the pub, woke up with a root password written on my arm
5202
<tjs> I cant do anything
5203
<tjs> im running XP atm
5206
<rik> a python packet filter.
5207
<rik> that'd have almost windows-like performance.
5208
<afshar> well, it would be for windows
5210
[In response to http://journal.jafo.ca/sw-20030328-18biganno.jpg]
5211
<Brend> Wow. You guys are younger than I thought.
5212
<dash> Brend: glyph's on like his third host body
5214
<hypatia> Hey, hidden bonus of having actual named maintainers is having
5215
people to assign bugs to...
5216
<hypatia> Of course, it always ends up being exarkun anyway.
5218
<arg> i know a guy whos last words were "brb, bout to go h@x this streetlight"
5221
<glyph> saph: loving relationships don't involve windows.
5222
<saph> glyph: they do if there is a safe word involved
5223
<PenguinOfDoom> "GENERAL PROTECTION FAULT IN MODULE KERNEL32.DLL SYSTEM CRASHED ERASING DATA NOW" "Firetruck! Firetruck!"
5225
<zooko> https://yumyum.zooko.com:19144/pub/emacsirc.png
5226
<zooko> ^-- screenshot of my beautiful Ubuntu desktop
5227
<teratorn> why must i accept your phony ssl certificate?
5228
<zooko> you don't have to if you don't want to.
5229
<zooko> In fact, I recommend that you reject it. Because it could be a Man In The Middle attempting to show you a phony screenshot of my xemacs session.
5231
<Yosomono> aron: So how are you different from the fascists again?
5232
<aron> I look shity in borwn shorts
5234
<exarkun> did glyph tell you about the book we saw at the bookstore over the weekend?
5235
<exarkun> on the front it said
5236
<exarkun> Java: Principles in Object Oriented Programming
5237
<exarkun> on the side it said
5240
<moshez> glyph: hello tiny person!
5241
<moshez> are you tiny and squishy today
5242
<glyph> moshez: You ask questions that are difficult to answer sensibly
5243
<moshez> glyph: yes! because I am evil
5244
<glyph> moshez: for example, "no, I am massive and hard" might give the wrong impression
5245
<moshez> glyph: urgh
5246
<moshez> the mental goggles they do nothing
5248
<foom> who's going to the Time Traveler's Convention next weekend?
5249
<zirpu> i already went. :-)
5255
<anthony> time to say goodbye fedora, hello whorey weasal (or whatever the fuck it's called this week)
5257
<Brend> glyph: I see you are proactively prepared to leverage the horizontal market opportunities of the end of all life. I'm impressed.
5259
<radix> everything in the world should have butter in it
5261
<itamar> WebSphere MQ!
5262
<itamar> More enterprise than William Shatner!
5264
--> freakazoi1 (~Sean@pat100.wirelesssecuritycorp.com) has joined #p2p-hackers
5265
<freakazoi1> stupid wireless
5266
<-- freakazoid has quit (Nick collision from services.)
5267
--- freakazoi1 is now known as freakazoid
5269
<exarkun> I bet francis bacon would go well with orange juice waffles
5271
<exarkun> (?:PARTOFSPEECH<adjective>(\w)(\w)+y) (?:SEMANTICWEB<noun,mammal,small>\1\w+)
5272
<warner> next you're going to tell me that those are actually valid Perl6 regular expressions
5273
<exarkun> yes, except PARTOFSPEECH is a unicode character with a glyph like a speaking mouth, and SEMANTICWEB is a unicode character with a glyph like cthulu
5275
<MFen> you needed to kill -USR1 duh
5277
<PenguinOfDoom> Can I make a saving LOL? :(
5278
<PenguinOfDoom> USR1 made gnome-settings-daemon die
5279
<MFen> dude that's because you didn't init 5 first n00b
5280
<MFen> btw, i'm making this crap up
5281
<PenguinOfDoom> btw, I'm planning the destruction of Fresno
5282
<MFen> can i provide you with maps?
5285
<MFen> Tv: how do you know when sarge is going to be released?
5286
<Tv> MFen: If it ain't out by debconf, there will be a public lynching ;)
5288
<itamar> ""As a champion of the free-enterprise system in Congress, Chris Cox knows that a free economy is built on trust," Bush said at the White House as he introduced the third man in his tenure to lead the [SEC]."
5289
<itamar> apparently the guy is a fan of Ayn Rand
5290
<itamar> also a fan of large contributions from corporations
5292
<dash> that's what it just said he's a champion of, right?
5293
<dash> free-enterprise system in Congress
5295
<winjer> but i made a point of learning as little as possible
5296
<winjer> i spent most of the time chasing women and smoking pot
5298
<winjer> if i'd smoked less i might have caught some
5299
<saph> winjer: did you go to hampshire college or something
5301
<dreid> heh ... worst name for an interface ever ... ITem
5302
<warner> oh, I don't know, I bet INterface would be worse
5303
<warner> implements(INYerFace)
5304
<dreid> IStabber(dreid).stab('warner')
5305
<warner> registerAdapter(lambda victim: dreid, type('warner'), IStabee)
5306
<warner> heh. the PEP246 equivalent of "nyah nyah, no tagbacks!"
5308
<radix> and long words are good words
5309
<Brend> But what about those of us who have hippopotomonstrosesquippadeliophobia?
5311
<radix> (to put it into terms you'll understand)
5313
<jafo> PenguinOf: Ha ha. You listened to a doctor! Serves you right.
5314
<jafo> I mean, look at it this way. They spend at least 6 years in school, right?
5315
<jafo> If they're so hot, why can't they graduate in 4 years like everyone else?
5316
<jafo> Besides, why would I want to be a doctor when I could be a MASTER?
5318
<_radix_the_nun> I write things on 3x5 cards then smoke them to learn stuff
5320
<PenguinOfLove> And when I strike, the kids with their "lol" and "ur"
5321
will scream "oh, please, Pavel! Do not degrade and destroy our beloved
5324
<Brend> Whoever chose the title "A Gentle Introduction to Haskell" is
5325
obviously accustomed to wrestling bears in piranha pits or something.
5327
<dash> halfoff: what's the problem?
5328
<dreid> dash: his spider is dying.
5329
<dash> dreid: quiet you
5330
<halfoff> i have a mexican redknee tarantula that escaped for about a week i found it this morning very weak and slow moving is it molting or dying
5331
<dreid> dash: told you.
5334
<seberino> dash: my zope class prof said real businesses don't do
5335
javascript since not professional so i happily neglected it
5338
<dash> glyph: what are _you_ doing up? you have to be at work in the morning
5339
<dash> glyph: you know, to tell me what to do
5340
<glyph> dash: I got about 30 hours of sleep this weekend, I'm good
5341
<dash> glyph: that's no way to live, man
5342
<glyph> dash: Yeah, but you know me. I'm happy with a ghastly un-life; a mockery of what it means to live
5343
<dash> glyph: You must be using "happy" in a figurative or metaphorical sense.
5345
<ph3nyx> mfen: my gvim configuration under windows is wacky
5346
<MFen> ph3nyx: you should see mine. i keep it in version control :)
5348
* bear keeps his entire dev config in version control
5349
<KragenSitaker> i keep my entire living room in version control
5350
<MFen> yeah. i mean, i keep my desktop backgrounds in version control too, so maybe that's not a very strong point
5351
<ph3nyx> kragen: that's gotta be a pain in the ass for branching
5352
<ph3nyx> copying your living room isn't an O(1) operation, no matter what the SVN docs say
5353
<MFen> svn diff -r172:171. "Dammit! Who moved my chair."
5355
<KragenSitaker> i tried keeping my entire front yard in it too, but it kept leaking gasoline from the lawnmower
5356
<KragenSitaker> turns out CVS was expanding a $Id$ in the wheel assembly that would puncture the gas tank
5357
<MFen> you need svn:flammable 1
5359
<KragenSitaker> so I decided that was too dangerous and scaled back to my living room
5360
<KragenSitaker> now i just make occasional tar files of the whole house and back them up with rmsync
5361
<KragenSitaker> which is the version of rsync for matter
5362
<MFen> KragenSitaker: have you ever considered branching yourself?
5364
Jerub|the best advice anyone ever gave me was when i was a fledgling linux geek.
5366
Jerub|the worst advice anyone ever gave me was "install mirc".
5367
Jerub|and I still, to this day, curse that man.
5369
<cracauer> Potatos are for throwing. If god had intended for them to be eaten they would be square.
5370
<dbutts> How many naturally occuring edible things are square?
5371
<dbutts> Apart from fiendishly expensive japanese watermelons?
5372
<cracauer> Chocolate bars :-)
5374
<subterrific> what happened to twisted.reality ?
5375
<dash> subterrific: nothing
5376
<subterrific> is it running somewhere?
5378
<dash> that would be something! instead of nothing
5380
<tjs> I say we pull their bluff
5383
<tjs> if everyone spams everyone, then spam will nolonger be effective
5384
<tjs> and it will stop
5385
<tjs> and so will the internet, and we can all farm tomatoes
5388
[dash referring to Alan Cox's quote]
5389
<dash> what's 6mb of unauditable crap
5390
<PenguinOfDoom> dash: You have three guesses.
5391
<dash> PenguinOfDoom: your gnucash budget?
5393
<jotham> you guys are like ADHD vultures, swoop in, devour my problem, leave me
5394
bewildered, then go off to the next corpse
5396
<glyph> In the sentence "mang I need to get some cheetos up ins", what
5397
part of speech is "up ins", and what function does it serve? It
5398
seems to me like "i need to get some cheetos" would be sufficient
5399
<exarkun> It serves to disambiguate from the case where one merely
5400
needs to procure rights to a future shipment of cheetos, most likely
5401
to be resold before delivery is taken.
5403
<radix> php thinks 0 == "Foo"
5406
<moshez> radix: as consistent and clear PHP is, it has its problem areas
5407
<moshez> radix: wait, no, I can't say that with a straight face
5409
<jotham> something i coded was just on sky sport news
5410
<jotham> shame it was a horrible C++ nightmare
5411
<mwh> is debugging nested templates a sport now?
5413
<mumak> Python totally needs to find a use for �
5415
<`anthony> mumak: range!
5416
<spiv> mumak: There's *already* an ellipsis type in Python.
5417
<spiv> mumak: Put 2 and 2 together!
5418
<`anthony> spiv: but the ellipsis type is useless.
5419
<spiv> `anthony: Clearly unicode would fix that!
5422
<glyph> What the *crap*, how does this work
5423
<spiv> glyph: LD_PRELOAD
5424
<glyph> fuck, why is everything horrible
5426
<radix> hrm, I meant to say <3, but I guess maybe <4 means extra <3.
5428
<tjs> http://www.animalcaresystems.com/
5429
<tjs> about 20 crates with this logo just got dumped outside our office
5430
<tjs> full or rack-mounted mice-containers
5431
<tjs> unfortunately for me, I have an insatiable curiosity. and when
5432
someone unloads 2 shipping containers of extremely high-tech mice
5433
containment systems on my doorstep, I just have to know whats going on
5435
<mumak> Jerub: the trial command line isn't so much of a swiss army knife as... well, Dad's old toolshed.
5436
<mumak> you never know what you'll find there. there's bound to be some cool stuff, but you can't be too sure whether it will work. everything is either greasy, dusty or both, and nothing is where you expect it to be.
5438
<justinj> It is difficult to assess the current state of the world when things don't fail consistently.
5440
<dash> glyph: i live with my two younger brothers
5441
<dash> it is like getting a graduate course in techniques for annoying people
5442
<dash> that is why i thought of SMS
5444
tekNico: Some guy has ported Stan to Turbogears: http://blog.develix.com/archive/2006/01/01/stan-turbogears-continued/
5445
idnar: that's a bit backwards
5446
idnar: I wouldn't say anyone ported anything
5447
idnar: it's just that turbogears has pluggable templating, and he plugged stan in
5448
tekNico: Hey, either port or plug, it's still a four letter p-word.
5451
01:10 < KragenSitaker> PenguinOfDoom: are you watching american politics? (< PenguinOfDoom> ugh just when I thought this show couldn't get any worse. Torture and obvious lip-syncing.)
5453
<zooko> I pay attention to Linux development, mostly starting with lwn.net and its "Kernel" page every week.
5454
<zooko> I'm often reminded of the adage about sausage and legislation.
5455
<zooko> I use Linux, and I'm happy with it, but the more I learn about the development process the less comfortable I am.
5457
<foom> haha, OSX had a suid tool called "dsidentity" which checked your privileges by looking at the "USER" environment variable.
5460
<radix> /Library/Receipts/MacOSXUpdateCombo10.4.3.pkg/Contents/Resources/postflight_actions/dsidentity.sh
5462
<radix> and the contents of that script are /bin/rm -f "$3/usr/sbin/dsidentity"
5463
<landonf> What happens when you take a bunch of Mac developers and drop them into UNIX-land ?
5464
<dash> landonf: hilarity ensues
5466
<dreid> inviso_: of course in an alternate timeline you're also a 12 foot tall ninja dinosaur.
5467
<inviso_> oooo, excellent! I like that one better. Can I order that with fries?
5468
<dreid> you think when you're a 12 foot tall ninja dinosaur you're going to be a herbivore?
5471
<PenguinOfDoom> I just forgot that I watched Spiderman 2.
5472
<PenguinOfDoom> And then remembered.
5473
<PenguinOfDoom> And then forgot again.
5474
<exarkun> PenguinOfDoom: Apparently you then remembered again.
5475
<exarkun> PenguinOfDoom: What an exciting turn of events. Tell me more.
5477
<orbitz> amberite: our concurrency model is wanted in 12 systems for murder
5478
<Tv> orbitz: Pfft, it has a perfect alibi -- it was elsewhere at the time!
5480
mode ( +o glyph ) by ChanServ
5481
<moshez> glyph is opping, and it's not because I'm being abusive
5483
<moshez> what is wrong with the world
5485
<Jerub> someone motivate me to write a real http client.
5486
<lifeless> Jerub: write a real http client
5487
<spiv> Jerub: write a real http client
5488
<oubiwann> Jerub: write a real client and 1000 virgins are yours for the taking
5489
<dash> oubiwann: all of #gentoo?!
5491
<jml> Give me enough bandwidth and a place to sit
5492
<jml> and I will move the world.
5494
<Brend> I don't have any special cases! All my functions do everything!
5495
<MikeS> Brend: me too! That's why my program is just a single function, run()
5497
<dreid> do they not have sarcasm in boston?
5498
<glyph> no, we communicate exclusively through interpretive dance
5500
<PenguinOfDoom> "!!!!!..!!!!!"
5501
<PenguinOfDoom> HELP THERE IS A TFTP WOMBAT IN MY ROUTER
5502
<PenguinOfDoom> It feeds on exclamation marks.
5504
<exarkun> oh crap I need to do some work too
5505
<exarkun> but first I will need to configure my irc client to tell everyone that I have work to do
5506
<exarkun> so that I don't waste any time manually telling people that I have work to do
5507
<exarkun> can anyone stop working on whatever they're working on and tell me how to configure my irc client to tell you that I'm going to start working on something
5508
<_moshez> exarkun: perhaps! what irc client do you have
5509
<exarkun> _moshez: my fist
5510
<exarkun> I punch kittens until out of sheer suffering they start channelling the internet
5512
(From pydoctor's website):
5516
Good question, glad you asked.
5519
<radix> isn't the answer to *any* question about javascript simply "haha"?
5521
(regarding threadedselectreactor)
5522
<SamB_XP> is it chernobl-safe?
5523
<dreid> not nearly as safe
5524
<SamB_XP> thats pretty bad!
5525
<dreid> chernobyl probably didn't have unittests either though
5526
<SamB_XP> actually, I think that was what they were trying when they
5528
<glyph> nothing says [FAILED] quite like an entire uninhabitable province
5530
<Jack9> after ConnectionMade() where does it return to?
5531
<exarkun> Jack9: Otherwhere
5533
<Deformative> Well, I am one of those people that prefer old, tested/cheeper, hardware. ^_^
5534
<exarkun> Fortunately for you, even older, tested, cheaper hardware gets faster.
5535
<exarkun> And at about the same rate as new hardware.
5536
<Deformative> If not faster.
5537
<Deformative> Erm waiot.
5538
<Deformative> Ignore that.
5540
<keturn> dash: be sure to explain to your kids how jp is short for exarkun and GenericBoy is short for radix.
5542
<jml> "Roll for integration"
5546
<dash> somebody bombed paypal
5547
<PenguinOfDoom> bombed?
5548
<exarkun> PenguinOfDoom: with a bomb
5551
<MFen> hooray! correct layout, instantly. thanks, tables!
5553
<exarkun> glyph: I will tell you what 'V' does in Perl's pack
5554
<exarkun> glyph: Unsigned long...
5555
<exarkun> glyph: ...VAX ordering
5556
<glyph> exarkun: GGgghhaalllgufffffaff
5557
<exarkun> critical hit!
5559
<radix> man, it isn't easy to fall off a log
5560
<radix> first you need to find a log
5561
<radix> where the heck do I find a log?
5562
<radix> then you need to climb up on top of it
5563
<radix> that's heck of hard
5565
<dash> also "licence" isn't a software term
5566
<dash> it's the collective noun for a bunch of lice
5569
<radix> (a) by means of a device utilizing electromagnetic waves of
5570
frequencies lower than 3 000 GHz propagated in space
5571
without artificial guide, or
5572
<radix> (b) through a community antenna television system operated by
5573
a person licensed under the Broadcasting Act (Canada)
5574
to carry on a broadcasting receiving undertaking,
5575
<exarkun> I'm hella gonna start calling people names with a 4 GHz laser
5577
<radix> you are lying exarkun
5578
<radix> why do you lie
5579
<exarkun> it's healthy
5580
<exarkun> I just gained 3 hp
5582
<radix> I think all of our HOWTOs should be moved into docstrings :-)
5583
<Brend> radix: Right! That way people can look at the source files,
5584
and follow the usual chain of mystification -> hope -> rejoicing ->
5585
source code -> confusion -> panic -> roped-into-maintaining-package
5586
without even having to switch windows
5588
<radix> penguinofdoom is not an optimal destination for resources
5589
* PenguinOfDoom opens mouth.
5590
<PenguinOfDoom> <----put cheezburger hear
5592
<det> so how is married life?
5593
<dash> det: excessively awesome
5594
<det> When can we expect dots?
5595
<glyph> det: You've been waiting for years to say that, haven't you.
5597
<glyph> while 1: pass
5598
<glyph> that's pretty CPU intensive
5600
<dracflamloc> you'd be better off doing that in a compiled language
5602
[Mr Stebbing explaining his name]
5603
<tjs> PenguinOfDoom: no we chose a new vowel after the 'incident'
5604
<tjs> we dont talk about that anymore..
5605
<tjs> poor old Aunty Anne, in the kitchen, with the bread knife
5607
<glyph> ***** You have declared an explicit schema in a dynamic language *****
5608
<glyph> Would you like to RESTART, RESTORE, or IMPLEMENT ORTHOGONAL PERSISTENCE?
5610
<exarkun> I'm happy all the time. No matter what.
5612
<synx> Right, that's fine.
5615
<synx> no wait, yes.
5617
<radix> exarkun: it is cool, whenever I don't want to do any work I write wiki pages
5619
<glyph> I kind of agree with that.
5620
<exarkun> There's nothing to agree with -- it's true.
5622
<therve> hey! google is not a dictionary!
5623
<exarkun> since when
5624
<therve> since internet is full of people like me who don't speak 3 words of english!
5625
<exarkun> it's a living language man, you gotta keep evolving it!
5626
<therve> yay! evolvulation!
5628
<MFen> wtf python ignores -Wignore on its own warnings
5629
<glyph> MFen: you think that's air you're breathing?
5630
<glyph> MFen: I mean, are you sure that python is emitting warnings, and not just writing to stderr in C?
5631
<MFen> glyph: how can you warn when you cannot.. speak? 2> /dev/null
5633
<radix> WHITE MENS BRIEF SIZE L
5634
<radix> 365 @ $2.99 = $1091.35
5636
<jml> that is not a plan
5637
<jml> radix: you might think it is a plan, but it is not
5639
<PenguinOfDoom> It's not AMP, it's C
5640
<PenguinOfDoom> You need to be either Immune To Confusion or Soulless.
5641
<PenguinOfDoom> or take frequent short breaks
5642
<indigo> i may be both
5643
<PenguinOfDoom> In that case, Cisco has a job for you
5645
<exarkun> btw, do test driven development :/
5646
<Torn|zz> yeah that's on my todo list
5648
<PenguinOfDoom> itamar: Doing fun stuff while breaking tests is a bit like pissing into the wind :(
5649
<PenguinOfDoom> Sure, you get sweet, sweet relief
5650
<PenguinOfDoom> also a faceful of piss
5652
<dreid> Software sucks.
5653
<PenguinOfDoom> I love software! Software enables my life.
5655
<some guy> Are you the Twisted guys?
5656
<glyph> Yeah, but this guy is bazaar.
5658
<tazle> what should I read before poking at AMP?
5659
<therve> William Faulkner
5661
<exarkun> quick what's demorgan's law
5662
<dash> exarkun: "give me some rum or walk the plank"
5663
<dash> or wait is that captain morgan's law
5665
<PenguinOfDoom> Maybe we could just quadruple the moon's mass
5666
<radix> yeah, that's what I'm thinking
5668
<radix> man it's beautiful outside
5669
<radix> I wish I lived in a place where I didn't mind having my blinds open
5670
<radix> unfortunately there are constantly hobos outside of my house looking at my intellectual property
5671
<therve> use a smaller font
5673
<therve> man, why everyone want us to work on twisted.web
5674
<exarkun> how could you do anything without the web
5675
<exarkun> it's the lifeblood that flows through the veins of the internet
5676
<exarkun> or perhaps some kind of parasite
5677
<exarkun> it's definitely in there though
5679
<itamar> I get the impression MC Frontalot is going to be at ITA for lunch
5680
<itamar> or something
5681
<dash> which MC was that
5683
<itamar> exarkun: how exactly are you approaching the web2/web tickets?
5684
<exarkun> three man teams, radio silence, weapons-free rules of engagement
5686
<radix> I have an idea btw
5687
<radix> zope.configuration
5688
<exarkun> that's not an idea
5689
<dash> putting zope in front of words automatically makes them ideas
5690
<radix> dash: just like twisted
5691
<exarkun> dash: almost! except the opposite.
5693
<exarkun> I AM NOT ANGRY SHUT UP OR I WILL GO MAD WITH RAGE AND MURDER YOU
5695
<MFen> still. in a world of no pants, the one-panted man is king
5697
<remote> is this where good habits were invented?
5698
<Jerub> remote: no, but this is where bad habits are ridiculed.
5700
<Jerub> MFen: it's certainly a core pillar in the lollocopter zeitgeist.
5702
<ivan> RFCs are generally known for their superb quality
5705
<exarkun> I fixed the build, but still no orange.
5706
<djmitche> I misunderstood that at first as a malapropism for "..but still no cigar"
5709
<exarkun> lvh: Find the frame the assertion came from and look into its locals
5710
<exarkun> lvh: Use the frame's bytecode offset to find out which line was running
5711
<exarkun> lvh: re-evaluate the expressions in the assertion in the context of the frame's locals
5712
<exarkun> lvh: viola
5713
<lvh> exarkun: viola...tion
5715
<radix> but I don't think anyone else has time and/or knowledge to try to build a karmic package at the moment.
5716
<jldupont> radix: hmm.... somewhat strange... single point of failure for you guys...
5717
<idnar> look on the bright side
5718
<idnar> it's a single point of success
5720
11:44 < vatts> wvd, it used to work before (as i said) and i didn't change anything :s
5721
11:44 < exarkun> vatts: Denial is only very rarely a useful debugging technique.
added
removed
vendor/Twisted-10.0.0/doc/fun/Twisted.Quotes
